What is the problem with Canada?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by LouisianaViking07/09, Jun 11, 2016.

  1. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    There's plenty of academies around who have developed more elite players than those 3. The pathway to pro was the problem as the 3 MLS academies were pushing their own to youth national teams. The trend is slowly starting to change with CPL working with all the others that have been snubbed all these years while restructuring and expanding division 3. Most people would pick Sigma academy over these 3 any day of the week.
     
  2. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any news on a new TV deal? CPL is starting up in a little over a month......
     
  3. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the thing is they haven’t really gotten much from the MLS academies. Of their key guys a good chunk of them didn’t come through the MLS academies.

    Toronto should be their FC Dallas but they haven’t done a good job of bringing guys through and they are more akin to the LA teams sitting on a ton of talent and not doing much with it.

    And when you have only three you need them all to produce, whereas we can live with a Portland or Minnesota cause we have so many.
     
  4. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    MediaPro will produce the games and transfer the assets to CSB. Onesoccer will broadcast the 2024 season but it seems that CSB will be able to sell games themselves this time around.

    CSB and MediaPro settled for now
     
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Its not easy.

    There are 3 Canadian MLS academies.

    There are 26 American MLS academies, with another one on the way in San Diego.

    The CPL production line is so critical. If the eventual blueprint in Canada is for the CPL to produce players that are then picked up by MLS (and Europe, etc.)............that can work.

    People talk about Dallas academy production over the years, as if they've ever won MLS Cup.
    Most years they've been mediocre to bad. 2016 they were good and could have won the treble.
    Other than that, they're not competing for trophies with all that academy production.

    You look at most MLS clubs and they have one or two academy players making a real impact. Philly started McGlynn and Quinn Sullivan this week against Saprissa. That's it. And by the way, they only started one other USMNT-eligible player (Harriel, who wasn't an academy player). One or two academy players making an impact in Canada is only giving them 5 players. And even then, they may not be of international caliber.

    So I'm kind of on board with Robert on this one. CPL production is super-critical. Super-critical. Yes, the three Canadian MLS clubs can do better. But that's only 3 clubs. You can't stock a national team program with that. You're not consistently competing with Mexico, US, etc. with that long-term.
     
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  6. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    I think there are a lot of issues with Canada's youth development.
    Three MLS academics are not enough to develop players. Only a few players from pre-academy will become pro soccer players. It's a numbers game, the more you have the better odds you have to get pro players.
    CPL like it or not is 15-20 years away from youth development. CPL needs time to get everything up and running.
     
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  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Indeed.

    Also...................how many USMNTers has the USL produced of late? Most of the USLers actually started at MLS academies. Diego Luna at San Jose, Jonathan Gomez at Dallas. The number of USMNTers that were wholly developed in the USL is infinitesimally small.

    The problem is USL clubs operate on fine margins financially, and don't have the revenue streams to devote to player development that MLS clubs can. [training facilities, coaching staff, etc.]

    Look at the FC Dallas academy coaching staff. This is JUST in Frisco. [They have other affiliates around Texas, etc.]
    Youth | FC Dallas

    So it is really difficult for a USL or CPL club to compete with that.
    They DO NOT have the revenue streams that MLS clubs have. Not close. [And its even farther away to European, South American competition]

    So its going to be a slow and steady build. Just gonna have to keep grinding.
     
  8. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Interestingly, both Canada and the US have 1 MLS team per 12.8 million people.
     
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  9. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Canadian production line seems to be

    Brampton -> NCAA -> MLS SuperDraft
     
  10. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    Financially is the reason why I think MLS will buy out USL. As many people have said in the past few months. MLS is trying to create a 2nd division league.
    CPL needs time
     
  11. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Which is an anomaly - imagine how many talent slipped through our fingers all these years because TFC were uninterested in what was being developed in their own backyard? Not every family can afford sending their kids to the US.

    With CPL, the path to pro eliminates that requirement
     
  12. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless they want a college degree and a US university is willing to give them a scholarship.
     
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  13. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The way it was originally pitched is not what ended up happening. Originally, the MLS clubs were supposed to facilitate the path to pro for players being develop all across the country due to the lack of D1 league. That's actually what the CSA signed up for.

    What ended up happening is that the 3 clubs decided to exclude themselves for the existing ecosystem and operate in their own bubble. They started to set up academies all over the place and ignoring while competing with existing academies who already had that expertise like Sigma and others who developed player who went on to play in Europe.

    As pointed out above, if Buchanan or Larin didn't go to the NCAA to get drafted by MLS, they would have most likely have fell into the cracks or went to Europe like Jonathan David but that a hell of a long shot from amateur level.

    Yes and no

    Yes - if you mean CPL clubs creating their own academies and producing quality players

    No - CPL did an analysis of the merit of creating academies like the 3 clubs did upfront and the % of players produced by those academies that earned consistent 1st club minute was abysmal. The league opted to partner with existing academies in their areas to identify talents and funnel them to CPL.

    This is where League 1 Canada comes into play. CPL will take control of division 3 and have clubs (some had their own academy for years like Sigma), competing in leagues from coast to coast. Players coming from academies across the country would move up through League 1 (D3) and the best will get signed into CPL. In term of number's game, the next David (Ottawa) or Davies (Edmonton) are more likely to end up in CPL first.

    CPL are copying Hockey Canada's model which has served us well. Under this structure, the CHL has eyes everywhere for talent, this is the long play for CPL as there are more registered soccer players than hockey - Canada is an untapped market for talent that's massively under scouted

    That's the league's long term play - they are betting on succeeding into funneling the best youth talent like the CHL is doing increasing the league's level of play and make money selling.
     
  14. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    We got Alphonso Davies thanks to a "play for free" program - banking it all on US universities finding talents in Canada and then offering them scholarship isn't a viable way to go at it. They clearly weren't aware of Jonathan David who was closed to Montreal... they never had a clue he was there

    What works is academies in the Ottawa region including David's academy partnering with Atletico Ottawa. This makes very likely that the next David will wear an Atletico shirt
     
  15. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The 2024 Canadian Championship format is out

    Looks like CPL ended up getting their way this year. They lobbied for 2 match series which the MLS clubs were against.

    Also, semifinal and final being later is a huge improvement

    upload_2024-2-22_14-0-20.jpeg
    upload_2024-2-22_14-0-39.jpeg
    upload_2024-2-22_14-0-51.jpeg
     
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  16. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Here's the bracket for the 2024 Canadian Championship
    • CS St-Laurent (Montréal, Quebec) - Ligue 1 Quebec Champions
    • Victoria Highlanders - League 1 British Columbia Champions
    • Simcoe County Rovers (Barrie, Ontario) - League 1 Ontario Champions
    League 1 Alberta launches this year

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    It's true that the USL doesn't get them at the start. Bu three-ish of the starters on the last U20 team were USL players or graduates (Luna, Gomez and Wynder). So it's holding its own.
     
  18. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  19. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    No doubt. The USL, NISA, etc. are a never-ending parade of clubs starting and folding. RGV Toros just folded in Texas.

    Minor-league soccer in the US isn't really good business.
    I don't know about Canada and the CPL. Its not really a recipe for stability.

    ...............................but that's the challenge when we talk about the USL or CPL or NISA or whatever as a player development machine. Player development does require money. Facilities, coaching, scouting, etc. costs money.

    As we've said, what the USL has done a good job of recently is nab players already developed in MLS academies. Diego Luna and Jonathan Gomez are two examples mentioned above. Jonathan Gomez spent more time at both Solar and FC Dallas in Texas than at Louisville. But for some reason people give the USL credit for "developing him." They didn't develop him. They recruited him. Same difference. Doesn't really matter int he long run. Another example is Matthew Corcoran, the young midfielder on the last U17 World Cup team. Developed at the Dallas Texans and FC Dallas. Recruited out of the Dallas academy to Birmingham.

    And, by the way, that's not a bad thing. MLS clubs do that too. Julian Araujo. Not a Galaxy academy player. Recruited out of Barca AZ. Nathan Harriel of Philadelphia. Not a Philly academy player. Recruited out of Florida (Chargers SC). Reggie Cannon and Chris Richards spent the absolute minimum amount of time in the Dallas academy to sign homegrown contracts.

    That's what the CPL can do too. Recruit the hell out of the kids coming out of the Caps, TFC, Montreal, etc. that aren't getting homegrown contracts. Find diamonds there. Its about numbers and numbers and numbers.

    When I look at Canada soccer right now I see an organization that hit new heights in the 22 cycle. That's led to a change of expectations that sort of outstrips their resources. Both at the federation level and club level. There are going to be growing pains as they figure it out.
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Big upcoming game between Canada and T&T U20s.

    In T&T.........................

    That game probably determines one of the two teams that advance to the CONCACAF U20 Championships.

    If we want to know about the state of Canada youth teams, this is a good litmus test.
    They can't lose this game..........................

    [So far this qualifying round has mostly been chalk. Only one pseudo-upset. Guyana pulled out a draw against El Salvador. Most of the games involving the bigger programs have been blowouts.]
     
  21. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    #6746 Robert Borden, Feb 26, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2024
    I think this will always be a challenge for Canadian teams playing in cross-border leagues as the standards are set by the bigger country, not taking into account the reality of the other country where the revenues are in Canadian dollars with a population with ten times less people.

    The closest model to compare CPL with is with the CFL where the league is adapted to its market with both revenues and expenses in the same currency. The CFL continue to prove that an all Canadian league can be a major league in it's own right and succeed. The CPL long term goal is to match the CFL and surpass it in Canada as the biggest Canadian league in the country

    Some stats
    • 66 years old
    • 9 teams
    • 2024 Salary Cap : ~$5.5M
    • 2023 TV Viewership : average of ~483,900 per games - an increase of 11%
    • 2023 Grey Cup TV Viewership : 3.59M
    • 2023 attendance : average of ~22,393 / +3% Increase (I believe that was higher than MLS in 2023)
    Interesting fact
    As you can see below, the Prairies are the league's biggest draw and money maker while Toronto and Montreal are among the team with the lowest attendance.

    CPL focusing on expanding in the West is a sound strategy and they can work in growing their base in the 3 main cities overtime.
    upload_2024-2-26_13-8-5.png

    2 of the current CFL owners have CPL club and an interest at growing the soccer side as much as possible
    1. Forge FC are owned by Hamilton
    2. Valour FC are owned by Winnipeg
    Edmonton Elks have recently shown interest on having a CPL club should the city help them with a new stadium that could host both teams.

    The Roughriders could be involved in bringing a club in Mosaic Stadium in Regina

    CPL could grow to be on par with the CFL within the next decade - that's why it's pointless to compare it to USL or MLS.

    It remains to be seen if CPL can grow to its full potential in the west
    • expansion in Kelowna, BC are in the advance stage
    • province of Saskatchewan is a priority
    • CPL wants to go back to Edmonton
    Southern Ontario and Quebec having half of Canada's population represents a have massive opportunity for growth for the league
    • Windsor
    • London
    • Kitchener-Waterloo
    • 2nd team in Toronto
    • Quebec City
    • Montreal
    • Moncton, New Brunswick
    CPL solution is to partner with existing academies which doesn't require that much investment upfront. People should realize that there are far more academies in this country than the 3 MLS academies - it's just the 3 clubs opted to exist in their own bubble instead of working with the others. That's what CPL will be doing by supporting those clubs instead of starting academies from the get go with no expertise and compete with the existing ones.

    The best academy prospects will be funneled into the one of the League 1 Canada's league and the very best will go to CPL or sold abroad.

    There's no leadership at this time, people are getting what they wanted - a purge. However, people should be careful what they wish for as the new blood could have vastly different perspectives and priorities.
     
  22. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Canada won that U20 game down in Trinidad 3-0 to qualify for the CONCACAF U20 Championships this summer.

    That game had real banana-skin potential.

    Leading scorer in the event for Canada was Myles Morgan of the TFC academy.
     
  23. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    New General Secretary and CEO of Canada Soccer

    Highlights (not mine)
    1. Blue joins Canada Soccer after serving as Golf Canada’s Chief Sport Officer since 2021, helping raise over $20M in financial support for Canada’s national teams along with grass roots programming.

    2. Blue was the former Athletics Director at the University of California, Davis, being the youngest Division 1 hire at the time (33 years old) and helped lead a “successful cultural and financial turnaround” at the school. A highlight of his tenure with UC Davis included the fundraising and construction of a new $52M sports performance and medical centre.

    3. Prior to his period at UC Davis, he led the commercial functions of Stanford’s $120M athletics department. According to the CSA release, revenue grew significantly during his time at Stanford — as the Cardinal football team made three Rose Bowl appearances during a four year stretch while the school’s soccer program produced international players like Christen Press, Kelly O’Hara, and Jordan Morris.

    4. He holds a Ph.D in Sports Psychology from Michigan State University and a B.A. in Psychology from Stanford University, where he captained the golf team.

    5. He was named one of Canada’s “Five to watch” in sports business for 2023.
     
  24. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    So I hear Davies was injured yesterday and may not be 100% going into the big playoff match against T&T.

    Interesting.
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just his teeth. He got kicked in the face.

    Screenshot_20240310_213458_Chrome.jpg
     

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