What is the best number of players on a roster?

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by catdaddy, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. catdaddy

    catdaddy New Member

    Sep 8, 2011
    I see a wide range in numbers across different rosters. Some in the low 20s to the high 30's. In your opinion what is too few or too many?
     
  2. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    For a college team I think 22-27 is a good range with 25 being the sweetspot. It depends on how many keepers, seniors, long term injuries you have and some other factors. Whenever I see a college team with 30+ players the first thing I think is how happy are those last 10 kids? If they're happy just being "on the team", then they probably aren't helping the team.
    Some schools/conferences have travel roster restrictions for budgetary reasons and the NCAA Tournament roster has 22 and only 30 total persons allowed in the bench area. I think these numbers may have changed a bit but the NCAA only pays for 27 in the travel party. I've seen a college team with 35 rostered players for a home game in the NCAA Tournament have to sit 7-8 players outside the bench area. I don't care what the rational is, that's not a good situation. I read an article recently about some small schools requiring their coaches to "generate applications" and some were expected to bring in 15 kids a year. Some smaller privates in this situation have funded their coaches sometimes with budget from the admissions dept. Sorry I don't have the article link but I'm sure it's more D3 and NAIA schools doing that than in DI.
     
  3. 8MaCookies

    8MaCookies Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    24 players (22 field player +2 keepers)

    With 22 field players and 2-3 matches per week depending on the week. There's enough room for rotation that players aren't running on fumes from match to match. And there's also enough playing time for squad player 12-18 and fringe players 19-24 from week to week that they are in relative form to the starting 1-11.
     
  4. RAMbunctious

    RAMbunctious Member

    Jul 19, 2011
  5. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's one of the reasons that some DIII schools keep football around. Every one of those players is paying nearly full tuition and wouldn't be there but for the chance to play. And at schools where they aren't turning away folks who can afford to pay (or can get outside aid to pay for it), that's more than enough to pay for the team.
     
  6. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    I must agree with those who say that the "sweet spot" for a D-I women's college soccer roster is about 25-27. Historically this seems to be what the most successful teams have carried in most seasons. (There are always exceptions, of course.)

    To achieve this number (target = 26) an average recruiting class of 8 would do the job. In theory, this might yield a roster of 32 over 4 classes, but if one subtracts out 6 players for serious injuries and occasional transfers out, the roster would end up being 26, plus or minus.

    The recruiting class numbers are trending upward in the last several years. Larger classes are "in"! Using cbg's data for 2012, I count 4 schools with 15 incoming players, 5 schools with 14 in the incoming class (including Maryland), 7 with 13 (including UNC and FSU), 13 schools with 12 (including Notre Dame ) and 21 schools with 11 players incoming. (The outliers are Georgia Southern with 21 in its 2012 class, and USC with 16 recruited freshmen and 4 transfers for a total of 20. Then a couple of UNC system schools: UNC-W with 18 and UNC-G with 16.)

    My impression is that for most schools these kinds of numbers are a new thing, although there are some schools who have adopted the larger class philosophy some years ago.
     
  7. New Engalnd Nellie

    Mar 6, 2008
    Sometimes the size of an incoming class has as much to do with the size of the class leaving, no?
     
  8. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    That would be theoretically true, but I don't see a very tight correlation there. For example, how many players left Maryland this year? Does it reasonably correspond to the 14 incoming players? Another example would be UNC which over the years pretty consistently maintained a roster in the high 20s, but ballooned to the mid 30s this year.
     
  9. New Engalnd Nellie

    Mar 6, 2008
    According to the recent Maryland news releases 11 graduated and 11 are part of the 2012 recruiting class. Maybe the 14 you cite includes transfers?
     
  10. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member+

    Sep 12, 2009
    Yes, Maryland has a few transfers coming in too. (Note also the example of USC.)
     
  11. ZoroTheSlacker

    ZoroTheSlacker A Sophomore Dad

    Feb 12, 2012
    If noone is injusred - yea. Then you can have 2 11 v 11 games. I think it needs to be higher as injuries and sickness happens. I'm seeing 4 keepers on many rosters.
     
  12. 8MaCookies

    8MaCookies Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Why play 11 v 11 in practice? SSG during practice, more touches on the ball. Why have 4 keeper, when only 2 are going to play? The 3rd is a practice player/bencher warmer and the 4th bar any miracles is never going to play exactual matches.

    Injuries and sickness is no problem with 22 or 23 field player. Unless the team is Arsenal, the College team is never going to have half their team injuried or unable to play at one time.

    What number of players did you have in mind for a roster?
     
  13. ZoroTheSlacker

    ZoroTheSlacker A Sophomore Dad

    Feb 12, 2012
    I do believe full games help. But then it matters what the coach believes. At this age I think touches are less important than team tactics. They need to know how the big field is. So...certainly 20 field players. Each position has one backup. This is good for two reasons.
    -The backup plays the same position as the "non backup", so a forward gets replaced with a forward
    -Two - it lights a fire under the player. They work harder.

    Then I'd have 3 keepers. You need 2 at each game.
    But some schools do put kids on as a favor to relatives that are alum. I don't think the intent is to play. So I think 23 "real" players and 2-3 favors. 25-26 total.

    Bench is no big deal if the kid like soccer and the school. My kid for example, she would rather practice and not start with a good squad than start on a not so good squad.
    Her reports this week (freshman) is she is working out like crazy and having a great time - with the team. For me, I of course want to see her play, but she likes the game - with good teammates.
     
  14. oscarfloyd

    oscarfloyd New Member

    Apr 22, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Have to agree with the majority of the people here. I would say 30 or less, with 25-28 being the ideal number to me.

    It may be smart to keep spring numbers in mind as well. You may want to plan to have enough numbers in the spring.

    22 + 2 keepers is a formula I like. I would expand on that slightly, but within reason.

    I think having atleast three keepers is a must. It would make running practices easier if a keeper is injured or has to miss practice for class to have atleast three keepers, or in the spring you could still have two goalies if a senior graduates.

    Having a few extra field players isn't a bad thing in case of injury. They could still practice or fill in on 11 v 11 scrimmages in case of injury.

    I think those last few spots depend on the person. If someone isn't ever going to play it makes no sense to have them around unless they bring something to the table. If that person is a positive influence in the classroom, or works hard in the gym, or in fitness and is a good character player I think it makes sense to keep them if they want to be around and are willing to work to make the team better and maybe play as a senior.

    If the last few players are really just there to get gear and are the last to get to practice and the first to leave I think they will more likely cause more harm than good. They probably over estimate their worth to a team and are more likely to sit and complain about not playing and about the coaches, than doing anything productive to help a team win.
     
  15. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Would a good test be: What are the sizes of the rosters of teams that have made the NCAA tournament over the last 5 years? Or, what are the sizes of the rosters of teams that have won the NCAA tournament over the last 10 years?

    Or, to put it differently, wouldn't facts provide a better answer than subjective feelings?

    When the University of Portland won the NCAA tournament in 2005, they had 22 players which included 2 keepers. When they won in 2002, they had 19 players of which 3 were keepers.
     
  16. HatchGK

    HatchGK Member

    Dec 5, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    UNC won in 2009 with 31 on the roster, 4 of which were GKs.....probably a very good number in my opinion.
     
  17. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks for looking up the numbers. Others, what numbers can you come up with?
     
  18. 8MaCookies

    8MaCookies Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Having that many players on the roster, x-amount are only going to be practice squad players. Unless there is a serious amount of rotation, how many players are in top form at any given time? More important question I guess; is that an issue, major or minor?

    Not saying a school can't nor shouldn't have that many players.
     
  19. Eddie K

    Eddie K Member+

    May 5, 2007
    I've given my answer but remember of those 31, not all were dressed, not all were in the bench area, not all even traveled or got a ring unless UNC chose to pay for it for the extra players. Very many schools would absorb the cost and not treat those last few players differently, but the folks running the tournament count players and the extra one's are not eligible to participate.
    AND not everyone is UNC. Several conferences (and schools on their own) have instituted 18 player travel maximums so in that case, a full 13 players (of 31) would stay home from the roadtrip. That's a great way to divide a team into haves and have-nots. A coach in such a conference told me the 18-player travel limit was the #1 thing he hated about managing his team (and he did begin to keep a smaller team).
     
  20. 8MaCookies

    8MaCookies Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Standford last year, had 24+3.
     
  21. 8MaCookies

    8MaCookies Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I like the 18 travel roster dress, ideally in a game those are the ones that will get descent playing time. I lean towards the ideal of a 21 travel roster and those last 3 spots don't dress but are seating with the team in their street clothes. Game day decisions, if there any injuries, sickness or form those 3 could swap and still field an 18.

    I like this only if their is just 1 road match on said week. If there's multiple road matches in said week or over a 2 week period(10 days), I'd say bring the full roster of 24, 26, 28 or whatever the number is.
     
  22. ZoroTheSlacker

    ZoroTheSlacker A Sophomore Dad

    Feb 12, 2012
    I know we don't like to talk about the kids, but out team...19 on roster and we had 8 of those in the ECNL games in CHI.
     
  23. 8MaCookies

    8MaCookies Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Can you clarify what you mean?
     
  24. ZoroTheSlacker

    ZoroTheSlacker A Sophomore Dad

    Feb 12, 2012
    They all broke or (one) got called up.
    I think the DI girls are a bit more sturdy - however its much harder to go get another player in college than stealing from the club down the street.
     
  25. ZoroTheSlacker

    ZoroTheSlacker A Sophomore Dad

    Feb 12, 2012
    The last three NCAA champions:

    7 Seniors
    5 Juniors
    6 Soph
    5 Fresh
    23 players and 3 JR RS, 1 SO RS for 27

    3 Seniors
    4 Juniors
    6 Soph
    12 Fresh
    25 players

    1 Grad Student
    6 Seniors
    5 Juniors
    6 Soph
    12 Fresh
    30 and 2SR, 1Jr, 1Fr Red Shirt for 34

    At schools where they fund on needs based, I see rosters getting big. The big prize is getting in the school, and it may not be soccer paying for it.
     

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