So a few of my buddies and I were discussing this year who we think had the best league in the world. Many of us naturally deferred to the Premiere League but all admitted, we really didn't see enough of all teams in the Spanish league to make an accurate judgment. So the first 9 weeks we have all consistently watched to see what La Liga was all about. After observing the league on a wider scale we all surprisingly agreed, the Spanish league is by far the best league in the world, NOT the PL. Sure FC Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid are the crème... but Sevilla, Villarreal, Athletic Bilbao, Celta Vigo, Las Palmas, Real Sociedad are all quality teams. The top 10 of La Liga IMO can easily compete with the top 10 of the Premiere League. And the elite top 3-4 in La Liga are way better than anything in the Premiere League. The PL is the most visible and lucrative/profitable/richest. I do think the PL is more physical but I think that's a compensation thing because La Liga is waaayyyyyy more technical. The PL relies so heavily on foreign players its crazy, whereas La Liga doesn't as much. I used to be a big "BL is best".... not so much now. I think the lack of visibility (BeIn Sports) of La Liga hurts when it comes to shaking off the often incorrectly made insinuation that La Liga is only Barca, Real Madrid and Atl Madrid. Thoughts? Opinions?
La Liga by distance. I do watch mostly Bundesliga as Bayern is my home team. But I also watched almost all the major clashes in EPL and La Liga over the years as well. Not saying that La liga is unbeatable but I feel that currently no league comes close to La liga when it comes to the "overall" Technical/Tactical aspects of football.
Depends on what you are looking at. If you focus on Sevilla (rarely wins away from home) it is a different matter as the top three. Premier league has also strong and weak aspects, such as the Europa League form. The Primera Division referees are by a mile the worst and a complete joke.
La Liga . Almost half of the players from the Balon D'or short list are from La Liga, the other 17 are distributed amongst the other 3-4 leagues.
As Puck said, all depends what you are talking about. There's no doubt that La Liga has 2 or 3 sides who are better than anything in the Premier League (and there are also excellent sides like Sevilla) but the PL has a lot more "stars" distributed among the lower level sides, is far better organised from an administrative perspective and has a lot more "big clubs" fighting it out. Personally I still like Serie A and would rather watch that than a game from there than Germany or France.
Last season 9 of the Top 20 in goals in La Liga were Spanish. The Top 6 were all on Barcelona, Real Madrid, or Atletico Madrid, and none of them were Spanish. Last season only 5 of the Top 21 (I used 21 instead of 20 because there was a tie) in goals in the Premier League were English, but 2 of the Top 3 were English in Kane and Vardy. I think if you asked fans to name 5 players in each league and counted each player once for every time he was named, the Premier League would have a greater percentage of the named players be English than the percent of the La Liga players who were Spanish. Which 11 do you think would be better, the best English players in the Premier League or the best Spanish players in La Liga?
In principle this is a good point but me thinks FC Barcelona without the 'La Masia' players is a different animal. Messi, Busquets and Pique are most probably the most vital players for each line (and something like GI supports ideas into this direction). This is/was actually one of the main concerns from the people who started this golden era since 2003 - that it is running on borrowed time, slipping boardroom management standards and they have had unstable patches during the last two/three years (most recently: March to May 2016, August to September 2016). It is even logical because almost all great/dominant club teams in history had a couple of pivotal homegrown players, then sometimes supplemented by big buys. Atletico Madrid is without Koke and Gabi (though not homegrown and on the decline) a different team. Real Madrid has only Sergio Ramos, who is however a pivotal player for the team (at the least borderline pivotal). Tottenham has at least Kane but which important English players have Chelsea, Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal? At United they're either on the decline (Rooney) or with potential (Shaw, Rashford). Chelsea has old Terry. Arsenal has maybe Walcott. City has Stones and Sterling (for the long term). It is however right that currently a number of the best Spanish players are not playing in Spain itself ('Football Observatory' tracks the exports by countries and from 2008-2009 onward it rose from 8 or even less to more than 50 playing in the top leagues abroad), which lowers the percentage you mention above.
So, you won't even watch Bayern vs Dortmund？ Bundesliga may not be a very competitive league on paper besides Bayern and Dortmund, but if you have watched closely of their youth system there are just so many youth talents hidden in each team. From Kroos, Ozil, Gundogan, Sane, Muller five years ago to today's Kimmich, Wigel, Sule.... Waves after Waves of talent keep coming
Yes of course I watch that but if it was (for instance), Fiorentina v Inter or Leverkusen v Schalke then I'd watch Serie A. Serie A is next after the PL for me in terms of number of interesting teams. I would be keen to watch any match involving Juve, Napoli, Roma, Lazio, Milan, Inter, Fiorentina. There isn't another league out there with that volume of teams that intrigue me.
I agree, there's a certain charm about Serie A . So much incredible history. I find the Bundesliga and Ligue 1 interesting right now because of the run OGC Nice and RB Leipzig are on. Be interesting to see if the can keep it up.
In my opinion one of the most spectacular in Europe is the UK premier league, at least if compared with the Bundesliga or Serie A that often offer matches too tactical at expenses of the show. The Italian Serie A is the most technical / tactical and the average level of ***all*** the teams is the higher compared to other leagues but this does not means that watching it on TV is more enjoyable. Brasilian Serie A also offers ton of show.
Mourinho (rough) quote on Sky Sports, December '08 (while he was at Inter): "In England football is played with heart. In Italy football is played with brain. In England you make tactical change, the opposing coach see what happens and makes adjustments to counter your move. In Italy you get ready to make change and the opposing coach is already prepared to adjust to your changes. I love it."
IMO, these are the best leagues in chronological order, based on results in EL, CL, homegrown talents and overall strength / quality: 1.Bundesliga (Germany) 2.La Liga (Spain) 3.Premier League (England)
Their "top 50 teams ever" list is pure crap with clear marketing-driven biases but this is a pretty decent article http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features...eering-premier-leagues-deficiencies-misplaced
In terms of interesting outcomes, potential upsets, unpredictability and perhaps entertainment its the Premier League but if you talk quality it is clearly La Liga in my eyes and then the Bundesliga. Depends on what the definition of "best", quality or entertainment?
The thing below is not necessarily meant to dispatch the idea but what's the EPL record vs Spanish clubs outside the top two (top three) and not counting the Europa League? If you limit it to the Champions League and discount the top two/three then the last loss dates from 27/11/2007 - Sevilla vs Arsenal 3-1. With as line up: Almunia, Justin Hoyte (Sagna 66), Toure, Senderos, Traore, Eboue, Fabregas (Rosicky 56), Silva, Denilson, Eduardo (Walcott 81), Bendtner. Subs Not Used: Lehmann, Diarra, Flamini, Song Billong. Since then there have been 21 more games at Champions League level (not figuring FCB or RM) and the English teams lost one, against Atletico Madrid (Chelsea vs Atletico Madrid 2014 1-3; with Diego Costa as 'star' of the evening). When both teams really want to go for it (Champions League level), the record is actually fairly good. If you leave Barca and Real Madrid outside the equation. There have been 21 games, the number is correct, and 1 loss for the EPL team. The record against Real Madrid: 2W 3D 5L with the two wins dating from 2009. The three draws date from 2013 or after.
Same period (2007-08 onward) against Bundesliga teams excluding Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund. There have been 24 games at UCL level. The English teams lost 3. Wolfsburg vs Manchester United 3-2 in 2014-15; Arsenal vs Schalke 0-2 in 2012-13; Bayer Leverkusen vs Chelsea 2-1 in 2011-12. Against Borussia Dortmund the record is: 3 wins (all by Arsenal), 2D and 3 losses (two by Arsenal, one by Manchester City in 2011). Goal difference is 8 for and 8 against. So in this instance the record against the #2 team isn't that bad. 24 UCL games and 3 losses is however a decent sample size to draw some mild conclusions from. Same as 21 games and 1 loss against the Spanish teams in the same timeframe (excluding FCB and Real Madrid).
Interesting factoid, but ultimately not particularly relevant to this discussion. What matters is that Atletico, Sevilla, etc. are doing well in Europe (better than Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd, etc.) not whether they beat any EPL teams during their runs.
Unsurprisingly I do not agree. There is a stark difference between the head-to-head results in the Europa League and in the Champions League. That difference is not a coincidence - it's easy to explain. Including the same group of teams who alternate between EL and CL (like Sevilla last season). The draw has an effect on the outcome. If you're in a group with Zenit, Porto and Austria Wien you can praise yourself lucky (2013-14). Or a group with Benfica, Astana and Galatasaray (2015-16). The budgets are telling. And yes, structural luck can exist. Head-to-head is not without flaws but just citing the UEFA coefficients and the Europa League results is the same type of thing. It's hugely flawed when the same Sevilla cannot impress against ManCity and Monchengladbach on the highest stage (Champions League). My assertion has always been the past decade that "best league" depends where the focus is on. The head-to-head results on the stage where it matters (the Champions League) supports the idea. Including that Real Madrid is better than anything the EPL has, and Borussia Dortmund is around the regions of Arsenal (of the past dozen years) or slightly better. edit: the number of active internationals is also an indicator http://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/atlas/en/active-internationals.html
The 'best' teams are perhaps currently in Spain but the 'best' league is the EPL by far, it has more competition and is more entertaining there are more teams fighting for the title, it is by far the most entertaining league (and at the end of the day that's what its all about) it may not have the very best teams but it has many very good ones. It doesn't command such high TV revenue for nothing
Discount matches involving Real Madrid and Barcelona... Let's not count others involving Bayern Munich and Dortmund... Ignore all Europa League results... Take into account games as far back as when CR7 was still being coached by Sir Alex... Thank goodness. That was quite a bit of "limiting" you had going there, Puck.
There's no one who disputes that it are better teams and have been for a quite a while. So yes, leave those out for a clearer picture. Same. And I did count Borussia Dortmund. As it should be. Champions League is the real deal. The English clubs have no winter break, two domestic cup competitions to play in, replays to deal with. Gaining one spot higher in the league table is more profitable than the Europa League. Fighting for a top four spot is more important than the Europa League. Still, I didn't really ignore the Europa League. I've noticed the big difference when an English team plays Valencia or Sevilla in the Europa League or in the Champions League. That is not a strange choice. 'La Liga' supporters often contend that the league has been better all-around since 2007. There's a recent thread here about "eras" (by Tom Stevens) and the beginning was placed in 2006-2007. It's a very defensible choice and I'm far from the only one to see it in these terms. You can ignore those games if you want, and move the starting point to 2009. It doesn't change a lot really. If I had picked games since 2012 or 2009 then I had received the same sort of reply anyway. Well, a passive aggressive reply, a disguised insinuation and a cheap shot. Fine for you, hope you feel better. You make no secret of that you're a devoted Spain and Germany fanboy (Barcelona and Cologne), I know. You perfectly know I have a point, a point the connoisseur snobs don't like to hear, and that is why you act like this. Everyone agrees the top two/three in 'La Liga' is better and stronger. The hipsters can stick that in their pocket. Time to back away from this thread.