He'd match Platini as the only player in history to win it 3 times in a row. Right now he's standing on 45 goals and 21 assists which means he's likely to finish with 50+ goals and 25+ assists. Around 75 goals for Barca he was directly involved in. It's an insane number. I don't see anyone currently challenging him for the Ballon expect for maybe Ronaldo. But even then he still hasn't been at Messi's level. How would this affect his all time ranking in your eyes?
its somewhat certain that he will end up among the 10 greatest of all times, unless if he retires tomorrow, in which case a top 30 is still a feasible goal. A top 5 or even a top 3 status depends on his future WC exploits, however.
I agree, the "haters" will always hate on him. These people will always say that he is what he is because of the team he plays on, the teammates around him, the weaker competition, etc. IMO, if Messi wins a third consecutive WPOY, as he should and he could based on performances and stats so far, then his status improves even further. For that to happen though, Barca would have to win La Liga and CL this season, while Argentina would have to win Copa - all with him being the key figure. Maybe Messi needs a WC title to get in the conversation of Top 5 players of all-time. Right now the top players of all time are: Di Stefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona. The 5th place is debatable IMO - could be anyone of the following: Beckenbauer, Zidane, Ronaldo, Platini, Muller, Best, etc. For me personally the 5th top player is Franz Beckenbauer based on achievements and importance of his role/position/contribution towards the game. If you notice though, there are two names on that Top 5 list (Di Stefano and Cruyff) without WC titles. So if Messi doesn't achieve that either, the question is what should/could/would he achieve to enter that top 5 or get close to it, leap-frogging other past great players? Overall, Messi without a doubt has the talent and ability to be or reach the top. It will be interesting to see what he does in the next few years leading up to the WC 2014 in Brazil. I'm curious to know if others think he is at his very best right now. Can he get even better and how much better? Even though he is putting amazing numbers right now, I don't think he is giving 100% of himself - looks like he is pacing himself and choosing the right moments to inflict his damage on opponents.
I think it has to do with exhaustion. Messi has played a crazy amount of games the past 2 seasons despite him suffering re-ocurring injuries earlier in his career.
Nah, he doesn't have to win that much to be WPOY again. Champions League will always carry a lot of weight, but how many true WPOY candidates are there among the teams remaining in the CL? Re: Copa America, there is no promising candidate for wpoy from Brazil, so I don't think Messi needs to win that. Of course, if he does then that will seal the deal. As usual, Messi's toughest competition will be from his own teammates, but unlike last year his teammates can't win more big team trophies than him so they have no realistic chance either.
Maybe you are right. But it could be also because of gaining maturity as well. I remember in past seasons, when he was younger and before Guardiola, Messi played every game at full pace and 100%, wanting to decide the outcome of the game by himself and in every minute of every game. Now, he picks his moments very carefully and seems more composed. The experience and maturity is definitely playing a part. But I'm also sure that the fact that he is playing a lot of games and a lot minutes also plays a part.
I only said he and his teams need to win these trophies so the Messi-haters have nothing to complain about or at least have less to complain about. Plus, it would be nice to see him win something with Argentina on a senior level.
Maybe he is a lot better and needs to make less effort to do the same or more. And I think you are right, he has become a much smarter player, maybe this could help him against English teams. Before he hasn't done great and that maybe because he was trying to use his abilities to the max without thinking tactically about it. English teams with their physical and tactical defenses are solid teams, so Messi going all out without proper planning wasn't working. Now, if he has become a smarter player and starts to analyze the holes in the defenses of these teams, and patiently waits to exploit them he could be much more effective.
It worked quite well for him in 2009 - decisive pass to Iniesta against Chelsea, game-clinching second goal in the final vs Man United, with a header over/behind Rio Ferdinand. Last year he had 4 goals vs Arsenal and this year he added two more, the first one of which was a masterpiece. Maybe you meant to say that Messi hasn't had the best of luck scoring vs English teams playing on English soil?
neither exhaustion nor not giving 100 %. Since 2009 Messi proved that he wouldn't be a mere El Burro or even the crazehead Sivori or Houseman..he is taking the Di Stefano route.
Well, Di Stefano never did good at WCs, so I hope Messi doesn't copy that from him for Argentina's sake.
BTW, no one commented on if Messi is at his best currently, can he improve and if yes, how much better can he get. I look at someone like Giggs and how much he has evolved. Could we see Messi go through similar evolution while remaining at Barca for the rest of his career? Obviously, he would do that at a little higher level than Giggsy, considering the individual achievements Leo has accomplished.
He WILL progress further. This is a smart, arrogant little fcker that thinks he is the siht, and will not settle for anything else. The cockiness is no less than in that of CR, but with more level-headedness, cold-blodedness and surreality. A silent killer, whose calm assuredness is confused for shyness (knocks der Kaiser in the door...)
There are two different things for Messi: 1- At this current situation as you also mentioned: no serious challengers beside the cocky CRonaldo, I think he will go on winning his 3rd or even more. Messi is on the "RIGHT TRACK" to imprint his legendary status in ALL TIME list 2- If he had won 3rd Ballon Dor: Regardless he will win his 3rd or 4th, his legacy and legendary status will depend HEAVILY on next WC14. Kevin Keegan won 2 ballon Dors and that did not really make him better than Batistuta or Henry (0) or Figo (1) or Stoitchkov (1) ... Or the other way round, Zidane (1) was regarded as "better" than Basten (3) or Gullit (2). Winning Ballon Dor is a "yearly basis" to PROVE a player did excellent (as best player) in that particular year (RELATIVELY with his contender list and any MAJOR tournaments that year i.e. WC/Euro/Copa ... beside the yearly UCL)
...nice catch on Keegan. Shows why having only a statistical outlook in judging a player can be fatal.
Messi has already surpassed Giggs....if he can lead Argentina to the WC title, the trinity (Pele, Diego, DiStefano) becomes a quatour.
I'm not so sure Zidane is regarded as better than van Basten. Gullit only won once. So according to Ballon D'Or: van Basten > Zidane > Gullit (Zidane wins tiebreaker with Gullit since he was a finalist 3 times). which seems correct to me.
Yes, without a doubt, Messi has surpassed Giggs. Hence why I said that Messi's transformation could be similar to Giggs' but on higher level. Messi doesn't need a WC title with Argentina to reach Di Stefano, since the Real's legend hasn't done anything with a National team. However, he does need that title to get close to Pele and Maradona.
Messi is already on a HIGHER ground than Figo, Nedved, Giggs , Cantona ... and rightly so ... AGREE 100%> Right now, Messi is ON TRACK to establish his name within TOP25 ALL TIME, I think Now regard the TOP5 ALL TIME: Pele: 10 leagues + 11topscorers + 3xWC's - IMPOSSIBLE for Messi Maradona: 1greatWC + 1WC final + 2xSerieA with a minnow club: close to impossible for Messi as well. Cruijff: 1 great WC (finalist) + 3 consecutive UCL with minnow club: I thik Messi could have had chance to be a finalist WC14 (if not won it) but 3x consecutive UCL? Never with a small team! Di Stefano? Well, you really and truely think Messi would have won 8x Liga + 5 consecutive UCL? LOOOOONG way to reach Di Stefano and I would say almost impossible! Let Messi catching up with Ronaldo first ... LOL