What If 9/11 Never Happened?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Anthony, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    New York Magazine's website has an interesting set of essays about what the world would look like if 9/11 never happened. I have not been through them all, but they are interesting


    Andrew Sullivan draws a scenario where President Gore (elected in 2004 with a minority of the vote following a contentious Ohio recount) finds himself drawn into conflict with a al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

    A real estate appraiser says your co-op would not be worth as much as it is.

    Thomas Freidman imagines increasing hostility between the US and China, exacerbating tensions over North Korea.

    Frank Rich says, well, Bush is evil.

    So far though, the best answer I think was given by French philosopher Bernard-Henri Levy -- "The week would have seven Sundays."
     
  2. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think this is some strange kind of navel gazing. Admittedly, I haven't read any of them (other than a synopsis of Sullivan), I think 9/11 has changed the face of the globe. It's hard to imagine how things might have played out if it hadn't happened. Maybe we'd still be in Iraq? I mean, who is to say the "Axis of Evil" speech wouldn't have happened anyway?

    I think the only thing that is indisputable is that the "terror" cudgel couldn't be used to beat the American populace into submission by the Administration. Given that, it's hard to imagine a scenario where he would manage to win a 2nd term.
     
  3. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    People would have been very confused as to why 9/12 following 9/10.
     
  4. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I tend to agree with Sullivan's take the most.

    My take? I would imagine Bush initially beinging somewhat antagonistic toward China, then backing off. I would see Bush otherwwise beinging something of an isolationist with respect to Europe, continuing to reduce America's presence there. On the mid-east, he probably would have taken a hands off approach. The New York Times would be writting editorials complaining that Bush was doing nothing about the Palestinians, Hussein, the Taliban and Darfur. I could imagine Bush having reduced the US presence in Saudi Arabia (remember, it was Clinton who increased the US presence there as Bush senior had recalled almost all of the troops home after 1991) and maybe even lightened restrictions on Iraq trade (I saw that positied in the summer of 2001). Bush would have a good relationship with CAIR as Karl Rove sees them as an ally to get their social agenda through Congress and Bush had a long relationship with the Saudi royals.

    I would be complaining that Bush was a big spender. I would also be complaining that he was getting involved in social issues that need not concern him. (Then again, before 9/11, I was more of a social conservative).

    I would imagine that terrorism would have continued to increase, though the focus might have been different. The focus probably would have been on India and Russia, with some in continential Europe. Of course, al-Qeada would have continued to attack US interests and eventually a big attack against our airlines would have occured. They do not care who is president or what the US policy is, they are nilists are heart.

    Given the wishy-washy ideology of the Bush family, I doubt he would have been reeletced. I also doubt Kerry would have been the Democratic nominee. Maybe Gore, maybe Lieberman. But not Kerry (and not Dean).
     
  5. sebakoole

    sebakoole New Member

    Jul 11, 2002
    Where is Philip K. Dick when you need him?
     
  6. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or Harry Turtledove?
     
  7. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    Bush would have figured out another way to screw things up. That's what he's good at.

    He probably would have found a way to invade Iraq anyway. That never had anything to do with 9/11, I think he and his advisors figured that he would be the hero who sorted things out in the middle east by grabbing some low-hanging fruit.

    And the Dems would have figured out a way to screw up their golden opportunity to beat a weakened dubya running for re-election, they're good at that, too.
     
  8. Mr. Bee

    Mr. Bee New Member

    Feb 2, 2005
    Buzzing Around
    Club:
    Wolverhampton Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There would be a lot less terrible country music being made.
     
  9. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree becuase before 9/11, Bush basically ignored the Middle East. He was far more interested in China (possibly a result of his family's old connections there) and Mexico. Had 9/11 not happened, the immigration debate would have been held in 2002, not 2006. Right before 9/11, Bush met with Fox and there was talk of a guest worker program. That would have been the big issue of the 2002 election.
     
  10. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    Giving amnesty to illegal aliens would have been one big screwup that dubya hasn't managed yet.

    He was ignoring foreign policy, I'll agree, but he had the crew in place who talked him into the Iraq fiasco. I doubt that it was dubya's idea. And I'm pretty convinced that they would have pressed for it in the absence of 9/11. And I'm absolutely convinced that dubya doesn't have the good judgement to have told them that they're nuts.
     
  11. KevTheGooner

    KevTheGooner Help that poor man!

    Dec 10, 1999
    THOF
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Andorra
    If 9/11 never happened we would have a Democrat as president right now.
     
  12. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    Which shows that no matter how bad things are, they can get worse.
     
  13. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He wasn't ignoring it entirely, was he? I seem to recall that they were about to roll out a big missile defense program the week of 9/11.
     
  14. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Or maybe John McCain.
     
  15. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I really do not think of the missile program as proof he was interested in foreign policy. As I recall, that was seen in Europe as further proof that Bush had no concern on foreign policy -- missile defense was seen as proof he was an isolationist.

    I actually saw the system (and continue to see it) as focused against China and North Korea. After all, stopping a Russian attack would be impossible -- too many missiles. Stopping a launch from North Korea and China of a handful of missiles is possible.

    In any event, I think Bush was interested in foreign policy, just not Europe and the Middle East. Without 9/11, I think Bush's foreign policy would have been (i) somewhat confrontational with China, at least initially, (ii) focused on inter-American issues (such as immigration and expanding trade) and (iii) more prominence for things like the African AIDS imitative. China would have been the focus for the "neocons", the immigration and free trade issues would have been extremely controversial domestically (immigration) and internationally (free trade) and the African AIDS initiatives would have been the outlet for the "compassionate conservatives."

    In the end, the China policy would have changed because unlike the Soviets, the US and Chinese economies are more intertwined, the immigration and free trade policies would have been too controversial and even if Bush gave $100 Billion to African AIDS programs, he would still be attacked as stingy.
     
  16. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see what you're saying, Anthony. You're right.
     
  17. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In any event, is it just me or are people actually having an intelligent political discussion on Big Soccer?
     
  18. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Scary, isn't it?
     
  19. HerthaBerwyn

    HerthaBerwyn Member+

    May 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Sir, you are too cruel. Now THAT would be the terrorists winning.
     
  20. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really used to like Turtledove. But I just cannot read him anymore. In the Two Georges, he used historical figures as background and it was well done. Richard Nixon as the most sucessful used steamer salesman in North America, JFK as a slightly lecherous radical magazine publisher, and MLK as the head of the American Tory party. It all worked.

    But in the rest of his works, he seems to try every twisted, bizzare way to cram as many historical figures into his books, and in ways that make no sense and add nothing to the story. I think he gets paid based on the number of historcial figures he sneaks in. I have not read one of his works in about 8 years.
     
  21. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If 9/11 never happened, I could get a cup of coffee, an egg sandwich and a daily news right in my train station.
     
  22. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Re:

    There would have been a 11/9...Anyway, Al Qaeda wanted to spank the US badly so there might have been a 3/14 or another major terrorist attack on American soil.

    But the question stands since the fact that it happened like that at this moment shapes how today is, at least in the US and the parts of the World that were later affected by that.

    ***

    Strangely, I remember vividly not only the day it happened - of course - but some events of previous days and my state of mind at these moments. even if there were personal reasons for it, it really is as present in my mind as 9/11...I don't have too much problems thinking how things were before this event yet I reckon it may be different in the US.
     
  23. Metrogo

    Metrogo Member

    Apr 6, 1999
    Washington Hghts NY
    Social security would be privatized by now.
     
  24. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    This guy would still be alive:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Nick_78

    Nick_78 New Member

    May 9, 2004
    VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Wouldn't you have to know why 9/11 didn't happen in order to answer to question? Did it not happen because the government foiled the plot? Did it not happen because the planes missed? Did it not happen because Bin Laden discovered his love of interior design on 9/10 and called the whole thing off? Or did it not happen because everyone on Earth was too busy holding hands and giggling at the cute little puppies frolicking through the wildflowers?

    I think the "why" is the most important part, I don't think you can just say "what if it didn't happen" and start making stuff up without qualifying it with a "it didn't happen because of this, which led to this".
     

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