What has happened to St. Louis University?

Discussion in 'College & Amateur Soccer' started by Bahramov, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. kinznk

    kinznk Member

    Feb 11, 2007


    St. Louis just picked up a pretty good commit.
     
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  2. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Wow, back on the map, just like that!
     
  3. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Billikens win the A10 Tournament.
    Remain undefeated.
    Should have a first round bye and a second round home game.
     
    fknbuflobo and TimB4Last repped this.
  4. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    How is the only remaining undefeated team a 10 seed in the tournament?

    I don’t expect a 1, but a 10?
     
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  5. fknbuflobo

    fknbuflobo Member+

    Arsenal FC
    United States
    Nov 16, 2011
    Akron, Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Billikens deserved a #8 seed. Difference between #10 and #8 is significant.
     
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  6. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    10 is actually pretty good. 14 RPI with zero Top 25 wins and zero Top 25 opponents. Four Top 50 wins helped them.
     
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  7. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    I'd agree if we had losses.
    We can only play the teams they put in front of us.
    We didn't lose to any of them.

    A 7 or 8 is more realistic
     
  8. BigBear

    BigBear Member

    Apr 20, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You keep saying "a 7 or 8"....you realize they aren't "a" 10, right? They're "the" 10-seed. For the whole tournament. There's only one. That's pretty good all things considered. Two home draws to UIC and SIU-E did not help their case for a higher seed (but I'll grant you, they really did a nice job getting mostly high caliber teams on the schedule for non-conference).

    That being said, in the men's tournament I don't think there's much of a difference between most seeds (outside of the top 2-3 and bottom 2-3). Once you're into the 2nd round, you're not getting anyone who shouldn't be there - unlike the women's tournament that will likely see some really ugly scores in the 2nd round.

    SLU gets the winner of Maryland/LIU. I'd probably take that over the winner of UCLA/UCSB, which is what the Duke gets as the 7 seed. So again, not much difference in who is seeded where with these middle seeds.
     
  9. BigBear

    BigBear Member

    Apr 20, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    4-1
    5-1
    5-2
    8-2

    Belongs on the 'Freezing Cold Takes' account on Twitter.....
     
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  10. fknbuflobo

    fknbuflobo Member+

    Arsenal FC
    United States
    Nov 16, 2011
    Akron, Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ask Billikens if they now understand the difference between #10 seed and #8 seed. The difference is more significant than merely 2 slots. Difference between #8 and #6 is insignificant. Difference between #8 and #9 is a big deal.
     
  11. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Then you'd be a fool.
    Duke gets the home match.
    I fully expect Duke to beat SLU at Duke.
    SLU would beat them at Herman Stadium.

    But my problem is not Duke. It's the Notre Dames of the world.
    They lost to Michigan St. and Virginia Tech.
    They tied BC.
    They are 13-5-3 = that's a 61% winning percentage and they some how get a 4 seed?

    I watched play them play NC and they were awful.

    The fact that Kentucky has to play Clemson in Clemson is criminal.
     
  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Kentucky, I'll give you.
    But Clemson? RPI is kind of ridiculous in that it gives SOS such importance.

    SOS is not important when you lose the tough games as Clemson did.
    They lost 5 games that's 26% of their games.
     
  13. BigBear

    BigBear Member

    Apr 20, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why would I be a fool? SLU smashed LIU and Duke needed a late-game deflection to get by a 10-man UCLA (9-man but that came after the goal). Doesn't take an analyst to see that SLU had the more favorable draw, even as a lower seed. I get the 3rd round home game argument but you can't look ahead to that when the draw comes out. Just have to worry about what's right in front of you.
     
  14. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Notre Dame won the ACC.

    When you're the champs of the deepest (not necessarily best) conference in college soccer, the committee is gonna put a lot of stock in that.
     
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  15. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    SOS is very important.

    Otherwise teams would just load up on creampuffs every year.
     
  16. SBZipfan

    SBZipfan Member

    Nov 19, 2014
    Santa Barbara, CA
    #192 SBZipfan, Nov 23, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
    Playing creampuffs does not prepare you for the tough competition in the tournament.

    There is no perfect ranking system. RPI is decent enough, somewhat overweighting SOS. Getting fancier (eg Massey) doesn't seem to add much value.

    IMO, the selection committee doesn't add value either. It's simply impossible for a human being to hold all the stats (even if it's just wins-losses-ties) for all the teams in contention. Just pick a formula and use it. That's what's been done in hockey for at least a decade, and it works fine.
     
  17. espola

    espola Member+

    Feb 12, 2006
    The Massey system uses game scores as an important element in producing its ratings. That pretty much falls apart in a sport where the most common game score is 1-0.
     
  18. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Yes, but losing to the teams that give you a strong SOS does not mean you're good.

    I don't care how strong of a schedule ND has. They still didn't win nearly 40% of their games. Do you really think they are the fourth best team in the country?

    I'd love to have someone explain to me how losing to good teams somehow means you're good also. That's craziness.
     
  19. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    Notre Dame played 10 Top 25 teams with a 5-4-1 record. SLU played ZERO teams in the top 25. SLU is a good team, they did not lose a game, but they are seeded VERY fairly based on who they played. Their big wins are over a 9-8-2 Creighton team and one-and-done bubble team in Louisville. With a 14 RPI and no Top 25 wins to get a #10 seed is actually quite a reward from the NCAA.
     
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  21. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    My point is that it doesn’t matter how many Top 25 teams you play if you lose to them.

    Losing to a good team is no indication of quality. If both a number 30 team and a 60 team lose to a 5, we have zero indication of either’s quality.

    No team should be award for losing even to good teams. Especially ND who lost or tied a lot of them.
     
  22. collegesoccer

    collegesoccer Member+

    Apr 11, 2005
    You get rewarded for beating 5 not punished for losing to 4.
     
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  23. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Duke’s crowd is pathetic. I realize it’s Thanksgiving weekend. But they have less than 1000 fans.
     
  24. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    What 4 top 25 teams did ND beat?
    And are we going to look at the loses to Michigan St and Virginia Tech? Don’t those count?
     

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