Where's the Shock & Awe bombing campaign? Two theories I've heard: 1) The whole Shock & Awe strategy was misinformation. Our plan all along was to take out the senior leadership with target of opportunity strikes and hope for a quick surrender. 2) We DON'T WANT to decimate the Iraqi military infrastructure beause we WANT the Baath Party to be able to remain in power after the war. Why? Because we fear a power vacuum that would be filled by a radical Islamist government more than anything else. This second theory is disturbing, of course.
One letter writer in today's Times calls it "Operation Shocking Bore", PS For all you hawks out there, his address is: Robert Twyford Dunstan House Dunstan Alnwick Northumberland NE66 3SY ENGLAND In fairness to Mr Twyford, he does make a very good point about the ridiculous amount of media coverage of the war. As he says, the basic facts could be reported in about 10 minutes. All the other 24 hours is filled with repeating said facts, and endless speculative drivel by so-called "experts". ------------------------ My theory about the lack of bombing so far is that: a) they don't want to create the impression amongst the Iraqis (and the wider world public) that it is a punitive action against the general population. This is because bombing civilian targets might stiffen their resolve, if Iraq decides to fight all the way. b) they want to limit the damage to normal infrastructure (ie roads, water treatment, electricity) to limit the amount of difficulties that might ensue in the post-war period.
Maybe "shock and awe" put in danger oil fields. It seems as if the major target now is to take control of the oil fields. Interesting what rumsfeld said about iraqi soldiers that will set fire to the oil fields. They will be considered "war criminals" even if they were just obeying to orders.
I haven't seen any evidence to make me second guess what the admin is saying: it's there to be done, but given the uncertainty over the conditions of the Iraqi chain of command after the missile attack it makes sense to wait and see. So far, the military execution is coming as close to the best case scenario as anybody would have a right to expect. CNN reports the Pentagon is more cautious about asserting that Hussein might be disabled than is the White House
I think Shock and Awe was the original game plan. We were planning on crippling the leadership, the military lines and moving our troops pretty much at the same time. It would have been impressive in my mind. But we got an opportunity to bomb heavy leadership the first night in Baghdad and we took it. We possibly got Sadaam, probably got uday and probably got some of the other military leaders. We weren't expecting them to all be in one bunker. But hey, since they are there, we might as well. So, now we are going with a different approach. We possibly cut the head off the chicken. No reason to waste a couple of shots on the body. As we move towards Baghdad and start meeting up against the actual Iraqi army and not a bunch of conscripts, we will see more "shock and awe". I think it really is a flaw in the media coverage. They have all these cameras and journalists in Baghdad. Who gives a crap right now. We are rolling through the Iraqi desert and won't be to Baghdad till much later.
You're suggesting that the press would be happier with lots of bombs falling, which makes good fiction but I don't think it's fair here. The possibility of a "shock and awe" phase was introduced by the admin/pentagon and emphasized by Rumsfeld only yesterday. Thus its absence is news and some analysis is required. Sure, the absence is being over reported, but then virtually everything targeted by the 24 hr news networks gets over reported.
The media are reporting from their sources that the military thinks that the Iraqis are essentially "command-less" at this point, probably because the initial strike either killed or incapacitated Saddam. At this point, I'll be naive and not cynical.
No, I think you misunderstood me. I don't think that the Press gives a crap honestly. I think they (the press, and in particular the US TV channels) just allocated too much resources to Baghdad, and not enough to some of the other cities. If they were in Umm Qasar or Basra right now, they would see more "action." No guarantee that they would survive. But they would see more bombing, more artillery and more fighting. But they aren't. So we get two bombs going off in Baghdad over two days. Once Baghdad is surrounded it will get more interesting, but for now, Baghdad is a bore
Ding! A winnah! Let's face it. Owing to the fact that a) we have some signs that we killed or incapacitated Hussein and, b) that following that we seem to be in touch with the commanders of the Republican Guards RE: surrender, what's the point? Looks like it might be pretty bloodless at least vis-a-vis the regular Iraqi military. We'll see how things go once all the various armed groups twig to the fact that there is a complete power vacum.
More than likely, "Shock and Awe" didn't start until today because the strategic situation was not right for it until today. With US forces in the west and north now the Iraqi forces are being forced to abandon any hopes for a mobile defense in depth and will be taking up static defensive positions. That is a clear invitation to get bombed to all hell. The Iraqi's are now unable to conduct a mobile defense because they rightly fear that should they become decisively engaged with any of the three forces to their South, West, or North they will face attacks from the flank and/or rear by the remainder. Thus, they have to "circle the wagons" as it were and watch the bombers blast the crap out of them as they wait for our forces to advance on them with air superiority and superior artillery support. It is a variation on the Battlefield 2000 concept which has become the U.S. military's operational doctrine in the past 15 years.
most reporters at the pentagon are saying that it didn't start until now b/c the original 'war' was not suppose to start until tonight...therefore b/c the war started early they gave the government and troops one last chance to call it quits, when they didnt. shock and awe occurred on the regularly scheduled night...
Interesting Cam. I didn't know that they had revised the FM in 1982. I knew that there was a variation called Battlefield 2000 that was started in 1987 and was being taught at the academy for the first time in the early 1990's. The first gulf war used elements of this doctrine though we are seeing the final effect here. The only element we have yet to see in full effect is CAS though if the fighting get heavier we will most certainly see that too.
by Mark Twain It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and sputtering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spreads of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country and invoked the God of Battles, beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpouring of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way. Sunday morning came-next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their faces alight with material dreams-visions of a stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender!-then home from the war, bronzed heros, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation -- "God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest, Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!" Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was that an ever--merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory - An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there, waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal,"Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!" The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside -- which the startled minister did -- and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said "I come from the Throne-bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd and grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import-that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of-except he pause and think. "God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two- one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of His Who hearth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this-keep it in mind. If you beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it. "You have heard your servant's prayer-the uttered part of it. I am commissioned by God to put into words the other part of it-that part which the pastor, and also you in your hearts, fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. The whole of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory-must follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God the Father fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen! "O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle-be Thou near them! With them, in spirit, we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it-for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen. (After a pause) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits." It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.
Can we refrain from this type of talk please. I've been on the ground when the ************ hits the fan and watching it now on TV still scares the crap out of me. No matter what side you are on (and I think I'm on your side boston) this is not a trivial matter. This is not a show, this is not entertainment, and it certainly isn't fun. Please, just have a little bit of respect.
True. I meant it as sarcasm, assuming people wouldnt actually take it seriously.. Although we posters dont agree on things, I can assume that NO ONE is taking it lightly.... I apologise to all for the confusion. PREVIOUS POST DELETED Supah-Dave: that was the most worthless quote yet from you..
just so we don't forget about what actually happens in war: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/21/international/worldspecial/21CND-TOWN.html One of the men, Mishtaq Thuwaini, had suffered horrific burns across most his body. The outer layers had been burned away, and they had peeled away from his body like paper wrapping. Mr. Thuwaini lay motionless in the truck, moaning occasionally, as a group of Marines did their best with the inadequate instruments at hand. The Marines had outrun their medical care, and help was not expected soon. "There is not much we can do for him up here," one of the Marines said. And so, after a time, the crazed Iraqi man pulled the truck under a bridge and prepared to spend the evening. The two men lay in the bed in back.
Just found a very interesting article on the strategy that is "shock and awe": There are two reasons why US victory will not end the argument. The first is that, even if Shock and Awe could bring immediate peace, there are reasons why Washington will prove unable permanently to maintain the shockingness and the awesomeness at the required level. America’s fist is not big enough and will not be raised high enough and steady enough for long enough. My second doubt goes to the theory itself. A big raised fist brandished by a power which remains subject to civilised limits does not, I believe, guarantee order; but instead spawns new forms of insubordination. ... There are two sources to America’s power: money and weapons. US economic preponderance should not be exaggerated. Other economies are growing fast. America can bribe, of course — though the limits to that may have been indicated recently by (for instance) Turkey and the non-permanent members of the UN Security Council. It can also blackmail, though sanctions and tariff barriers are a double-edged sword. But it is not straightforward, particularly for a vigorous democracy, to translate economic strength into a practical means for the daily enforcement of political will. We British, too, enjoyed a measure of economic predominance in the 19th century but it did not last long and was never unchallenged. ... Now look me in the eye and try to deny that, after the success of Shock and Awe, will come despair? Despair may not mount much resistance to a daisy-cutter, but, so long as there are jetliners and there are skyscrapers, despair will always be able to fly the one into the other.