What game are the Ref's calling?

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by The Wee Man, Jun 18, 2006.

  1. The Wee Man

    The Wee Man New Member

    Jul 11, 2003
    San Jose
    It amazes me that FIFA dramatically change the way Ref’s call the game right before each World Cup.

    I think that yellow cards for tackles from behind and shirt pulling is a huge improvement but why not do it a year before the tournament to allow the players and coaches time to adjust. They are handing out yellow card like paychecks and now we are seeing players dive in order to get an opponent a card or even sent off.

    I would love to be a fly on the wall at the Ref’s meeting going into the round of 16. They must be saying to each other “What happens when we get fooled by a diver and mistakenly send off a guy with the world watching on TV replay? What happens if it the outcome of the Cup gets down to a Ref’s mistake?” The FIFA suits will be hiding in there office’s while the Ref’s take the shit.

    The biggest question on my mind is, what game will the Ref’s be calling after the World Cup. What can fans, players, coaches expect in MLS for example. Oops, I was never sure what game they would be calling in MLS most of the time.
     
  2. KMJvet

    KMJvet Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It doesn't amaze me in the least. Seems like they've done enough ill-advised and ill-timed things in the past, it's common from FIFA. So, it merely disappoints me, pretty much like it disappoints me that in 2006 they can't figure out a technological solution to determine if the balls crossed the end line and side lines or even to made any meaningful progress on this.

    I've been pretty impressed with some of the individual referee's though. And pretty negatively impressed by others.

    If anything amazes me at all, it's how tolerant the world sporting community is about cheating in that I thought we saw signs the tide was changing from EPL fans this year. Cheating is big, in my opinion, as a reason match officiating is hard and that's on the players who choose to do it.
     
  3. KMJvet

    KMJvet Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't mean to be prophetic about this.
     
  4. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most of the refs and assistant refs have been pretty good, but we've had a few examples of really crappy officiating: Japan - Australia, USA - Italy, France - Korea (that was a goal wasn't it?!).

    I think the worst of it, is that many of the Euro teams get away with fouls that get called against other teams. If climbing up or pushing off on a head ball is a foul for Team A, it should also be a foul for Team B. If we allow a tackle from behind here, we'd better not give it a card there. And we've seen plenty of that. Not as bad as, for example, in CONCACAF qualifiers, but still bad.

    And MLS really needs some of those assistant refs to learn how to call off-sides properly.

    QUAKES FOREVER!!
    GO SSV!!
    GO WOLFF!!
    fuaeg!
    fumls!

    - Mark
     
  5. KMJvet

    KMJvet Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Officiating was good except for that one AR decision which no one will get right more than half the time. Too bad when he flipped the coin it came up tails.
     
  6. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Bring in Gus St. Silva and Kevin Terry to the WC for some real officiating.
     
  7. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why on earth can't Fifa install two extra ARs right by the goals for goal/no-goal decisions and (possibly) a better view of plays in the box? It's not like they can't afford it. The World Cup deserves it.
     
  8. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    Santa Clara
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Actually, there has been serious talk about some kind of chip or RF device that would allow an objective determination if a ball is past the goal line or not. I seem to recall that this almost made it into the mix in this world cup, but was not implemented. I do think that there is already so much judgment required in refereeing that any technological solutions that help the ref focus on the the aspects of the match that aren't reduceable to binary decisions better handled by machines are positive developments that should be implemented if they can be demonstrated to be foolproof and tamper-proof (Diebold need not apply)
     
  9. bluenblack

    bluenblack New Member

    Jul 15, 2005
    San Leandro, CA
    This is a good idea. They could also have some sort of technological solution to detecting when the ball crosses the goal line. Why not a chip in the ball and some sort of scanner in the posts?

    And another thing! The diving has got to stop! It's disgusting to see guys go down as if they were shot in the stomach by a high powered sniper rifle when half the time they are not even touched by the defender. What FIFA needs to do is review video replays and mete out punishment after the game. Maybe within at the end of the match.

    Nothing is worse when trying to convert new fans at a bar than to have all my arguments about how soccer blasted to hell by some long-haired punk clutching his knee, writhing in agony only to see him pop 30 seconds later as if he was miraculously healed. At Quakes games, I used to scream "It's a miracle!" Whenever someone (opoosing player :D ) did this. I hated it then, I hate it now.
     
  10. Tony in Quakeland

    Jan 27, 2003
    Pleasant Hill, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The problem with a technical solution is that it would stop the run of play to assess. If a goal was NOT scored, the defending team might be unfairly denied a counter attack opportunity. I think extra ARs for big matches an tournaments makes the most sense.
     
  11. KMJvet

    KMJvet Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think as long at it's a human decision, it'll stay as a 50/50 coin flip on anything close. Once the technology is sorted, it can be used for determining balls are out over the sidelines or the rest of the endline too. Doesn't solve, which team put it out, but it'll eliminate bad calls such as on Wanchope yesterday. It's doable by technology...just needs to be a FIFA priority.
     
  12. bluenblack

    bluenblack New Member

    Jul 15, 2005
    San Leandro, CA
    I think the technical solution could be a sensor in the ball activated by a transmitter in the goalposts, like an anti-theft scanner at a store. It would not really require stoppage in play. If the ball goes over, then a light can be activated like in ice hockey or the ref can have a buzzer on his person somewhere (insert sophomoric comment here). I think tennis had something called "Cyclops" at one point to supplement the officials.
     
  13. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After watching a couple of the last group matches, I also am beginning to wonder what's up with the refs.

    On the one hand, they are dishing out cards for violent play, on the other hand, they are missing a lot of diving, and sometimes getting the dives wrong. Play-on isn't a bad call when you aren't certain that play hit the turf too easily.

    It's going to take a while to get teams and league to behave better. What we need is more consistent officiating. I like watching the Mexican league matches because the officials are good and the players know that they must play within the laws of the game.

    QUAKES FOREVER!!
    GO SSV!!
    fuaeg!
    fumls!

    - Mark
     
  14. KMJvet

    KMJvet Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I do too, re MFL. I think MLS has gotten better except for a few guys and growing pains of a few newbies.

    But on balance the officiating this tourney has been pretty good. The bottom of the barrel might be the same as last Cup, but on so far across the board generally better.
     
  15. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Germans are getting too much slack, as did the South Koreans last time, though not quite as outrageously.

    I can't believe (well, yes I can) how the Dutch managed to dive in today's match and get shown a yellow. Those turds were taller and surely weighed more than the Mexican players, but went down in a strong breeze and the ref mostly bought it. He did at least call them for most of the nasty fouls they committed. They've got a ton of talent, so it really pees me off that they try to cheat. Bastards!

    QUAKES FOREVER!!
    And The Usual!!

    - Mark
     
  16. bigdumbgod

    bigdumbgod Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yellows ought to fly for rolling over and over on the pitch. Does anybody really do this when they get injured?

    New drinking game: drink for every time a guy rolls more than once. Italy and Argentina matches might actually send you to the E.R.

    Forza!:rolleyes:
     
  17. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, the play I was thinking of the guy didn't roll at all, nor did he appeal for a foul or pk. On the replay, it's pretty obvious that he did get fouled, and probably hit the deck as a result of contact. However, the ball had already gotten away from him and he didn't have a play on it, so play on would have been best. Instead, he drew a his second yellow of the day and got sent off.

    There were nine (9) yellow cards dished out in that match, one guy got two and thus there was also one red card. I thought it was a bit excessive.

    GO USA!!
    GO SSV!!
    QUAKES FOREVER!!

    - Mark
     
  18. Hawkeye17

    Hawkeye17 DynaChick v QuakeBabe v WildKate v Chewie23

    Aug 25, 1999
    Miami Vice 82
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Supposedly, that was being experimented by the FIFA brass, especially after one goal that was disallowed in the Chelsea/Liverpool Champions League match.

    After the one that wasn't seen at the France/Korea game it might be in order for the next round of qualifers leading up to South Africa 2010.
     
  19. KMJvet

    KMJvet Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mark, What game are you talking about? Dutch played Argentina. Mexico played Portugal. Mexico had two clear dives...one missed (Fonseca) and one called (Perez).
    What else specifically?
     
  20. NedZ

    NedZ Member+

    May 19, 2001
    Los Gatos
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
  21. BluByU

    BluByU Member

    Aug 25, 2004
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  22. babytiger2001

    babytiger2001 New Member

    Dec 29, 2000
    Melbourne
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With the chains of events in the USA v Italy and Australia v Italy games (particularly the latter example there) being what they were, and considering what the biggest pre-World Cup news away from the players and the pitch was, I wouldn't be surprised if there were some refs who were on the shonk. :rolleyes:

    Nonetheless, our good man Johnny has a reasonable suggestion in that any rule changes, subtle or otherwise, need to be eased in at least 12 months in advance.

    Things might be called more tightly and calls adjudicated with greater scrutiny in the Round of 16 onwards, but such things may seem drastic in the whole scheme of things when there's no easing-in process to begin with!

    The fans demand a "please explain" from the refs and from FIFA -- but then again, this is FIFA we are talking about.

    Even someone like Sam Newman, an icon of the AFL "Footy Show" and a media superstar over here who has absolutely no background in soccer but knows enough of it to comment on the disaster that has been the officiating, knows that full well...
     
  23. cristoforo7

    cristoforo7 New Member

    May 14, 2003
    A major cause of all these problems is Fifa imposing a new regimen on the referees shortly before the Cup began. Not to attribute all these mistakes to Fifa's idiocy, but the referees had to no time to put the new Fifa instructions into practice before the World Cup. It's no wonder that some referees may have been so pre-occupied with the new instructions that they let it all get in the way of simply refereeing a good game-- instead of letting their experience and intuitive skills help them call the game, they have been too conscious of the new Fifa crap and letting it interfere with good refereeing.

    If I were one of these refs, I would pay as little attention as possible to the Fifa last-minute instructions. Just ref!

    Blatter should be fired-- he is an idiot.
     
  24. cristoforo7

    cristoforo7 New Member

    May 14, 2003
    Bruce Arena makes the same point:

     
  25. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that some of the refs have clearly brought their personal biases to the table and called terrifically unfair games. Some refs have clearly taken the view that team X dives (Argentina, Portugal, Brasil) while team X plays cleanly (France, Germany, others). So we've seen games where one team gets away with diving, high kicks, tackles from behind and so on, while the other team gets called for even suspicion of these offenses.

    I know that it's tough to officiate at this level because you have players trying to cheat. Still, bias among the refs is clearly interfering with the game and changing some outcomes.

    Puke.

    go usa

    - Mark
     

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