What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer?

Discussion in 'Copa Libertadores / Sudamericana' started by vistamn, Jun 22, 2005.

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  1. vistamn

    vistamn New Member

    Jun 13, 2005
    Minneapolis
    #1 vistamn, Jun 22, 2005
    As I watch the San Pablo play River Plate, I am finding that I am almost expecting rough and questionable play from River... I know thats not fair but after watching the replays of the Boca-Chivas game with the behavior of some of the Boca players, the Boca coach and the Boca fans, I find myself wondering if Argentina soccer has turned down a path similar to the one they took in their political history, one of corruption and failure. In any event, I am hoping that River will show the world that Argentina has some class soccer programs remaining. No offense meant towards anyone, unless you are one of those who try to say that Boca did nothing wrong that fateful day...
     
  2. vipnerd

    vipnerd Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2003
    La Mitad + Román
    #2 vipnerd, Jun 22, 2005

    The effect has been that you will see Boca playing the next two CONMEBOL tournies ... the Recopa ,in mid-August, and the Sudamericana in the second semester.


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  3. Solid444

    Solid444 Member+

    Jun 21, 2003
    #3 Solid444, Jun 22, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    The effect of seeing the pride of all Argentinian teams being shutout and beaten by better Mexican and Brazilian teams. Apart from the horrible behavior that these animals shown, the score is what stands out the most. 4-0 and shutout in the Bombonera. Argentinian teams are not the best in the Americas anymore
     
  4. vipnerd

    vipnerd Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2003
    La Mitad + Román
    #4 vipnerd, Jun 22, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    Also true ... good there is always time for revenge in football. Enjoy it with a smile ... :cool:





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  5. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    #5 efernandez9, Jun 23, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    nada


    Nothing!
     
  6. Wile Coyote

    Wile Coyote Red Card

    Sep 21, 2000
    Punta del Este, Uru.
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    #6 Wile Coyote, Jun 23, 2005
    You make it seem like argentina is the most violent you see one game see one crazyness and you say every one is like that.. you see river fans run wild you say all of conmebol sout america argentina are wild...

    yet while all the attention is on Boca for what happened you forget about inter fans and juve fans that made liverpool fans run in the champions league this season.... I wont even mention what happens every week in Eastern Europe at the stadiums.... currupt CONMEBOL is far from currupt in the last 15 years CONMEBOL has become first class it has the same problems UEFA has as far as fan violence.. come on man give it a rest.....
     
  7. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    #7 efernandez9, Jun 23, 2005
    well, you may have seen that next weekend's games are postponed for security reasons, by AFA! Local liga will not have futbol next saturday/sunday...


    question: where will Boca plays copa suramericana if CONmebol sanctions la ombonera for 6 months?

    (6 months is my opinion, more than that will be appealed........el chino should get the same punishment chilavert got for spitting on roberto carlos face coule of yrs ago!) IMHO
     
  8. chaski

    chaski Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 20, 2000
    redacted
    Club:
    Lisburn Distillery FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    #8 chaski, Jun 23, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    Not in the Monumental. :p
     
  9. vipnerd

    vipnerd Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2003
    La Mitad + Román
    #9 vipnerd, Jun 23, 2005

    2 games Saturday ... all the rest on Sunday ... Velez and Racing games are at the same time, 5:10 BS As.

    And La Bombonera has been suspended for two games in Argentina for the local tourny. The game against Quilmes will be played at San Lorenzo's, Sunday at 3 pm Bs As.
     
  10. vistamn

    vistamn New Member

    Jun 13, 2005
    Minneapolis
    #10 vistamn, Jun 24, 2005
    I haven't forgotten about inter or juve or UEFA violence and I haven't mentioned CONMEBOL or the word corrupt anywhere. As far as I can tell, this particular board is about Copa Libertadores & Copa Sudamericana so I am quite on topic. Perhaps you mean to direct this statement at someone else. Give it a rest? Why, it was a problem and a current one. I was merely trying to start a discussion to see if anyone might see any connections between Argentinas problems with Government, Politics and Monetary issues and the state of Argentine football. Whether you like it or not, Argentina has some BIG problems in the former areas. I am actually hopeful that the football programs can stay above or rise above the national problems and that is a valid discussion arena in my opinion. It sounds like you may have a chip on your shoulder about this to me.
     
  11. G D L

    G D L New Member

    Nov 9, 2004
    Boston University
    #11 G D L, Jun 24, 2005
    i thought they were corrupt pigs for letting us "mejicanos" play with you:rolleyes:
     
  12. vipnerd

    vipnerd Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2003
    La Mitad + Román
    #12 vipnerd, Jun 24, 2005
    This might answer a couple of your thoughts ...

    https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5323614&postcount=45

    Forget about the last sentence. :cool:


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  13. Hartfield

    Hartfield Red Card

    Jun 15, 2005
    Bogota D.C
    #13 Hartfield, Jun 24, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer


    Since I remember Argentinian futbol has always been like that. Their fans travel everywhere thanks to the clubs top people. In a game against Colo Colo in Chile there was brwls between fans, also when people from U de chile went to Argentina same thing...Corinthians against Rosario Centra;, Santos vs. boca, America de MExico vs. Boca, America de Cali vs. Racing, boca vs Once Caldas, San Lorenzo vs. Once Caldas Cerro Portenio vs. boca. el nacional vs. Independiente...The thing is Conmebol favors the top confederations specially Argentina when it comes to punishments.
     
  14. vistamn

    vistamn New Member

    Jun 13, 2005
    Minneapolis
    #14 vistamn, Jun 24, 2005
    I don't exactly understand the governments thinking on this strategy. If I understand correctly, the protest is regarding the anniversary of the assasinations of two well known militants? Is the current government an adversary of these murdered militants?
    I would think that a game of this size would do quite well to "minimize" the poignancy of such a protest and therefore, allowing the game to occur simultaneously with the protest would be a preferable situation. I do understand that there has been much corruption amongst the Police forces as they have been known to be the perpetrators of kidnappings that they then investigate, all motivated by ransom profiteering... I may be wrong, but it almost looked as if the police officer who "chased" the fan in the yellow shirt who had assualted Chivas's Bautista appeared to almost help push the fan back over the security fence rather than to haul him down and arrest him. Perhaps the military should guard the protest and the police the football game, or vice versa... Or is the military and the government at odds?
    I promise to do more investigation into the current social issues so I can have fewer questions on the state of Argentinas social unrest.
     
  15. vipnerd

    vipnerd Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2003
    La Mitad + Román
    #15 vipnerd, Jun 24, 2005
    Protests are against the government. It would be in the best interest of the government that bigger organized groups:
    a) Don't join at a point
    b) Don't confront.

    The government has been, on the most part, pasive with this demonstrations ... it is the position of the City of Buenos Aires. But in any protest, specially in one that involves the remembering of two "victims", violence could end up unfolding.

    In any event ... I think this is as much info on the sociological and political status of Argentina as this thread really needs.

    Vip


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  16. fandechivas

    fandechivas New Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    #16 fandechivas, Jun 30, 2005
    i know this game was a long time ago ( or so it seems) but i pity the Argentinans (?) They lost because of their bad sportsmanship and because of thir fans. Also what kind of coach spits in a rivals face? It's rude and gives his team, country, and mainly himself a bad rap. However, i can't say i feel sorry for Boca considering i'm a Chivas fan. To me they got a slap on the wrist. I would have liked to see further punishment but again that's just me being vengeful. I hope one day both teams can put this behind them and play an awesome match. Talk about wishful thinking huh?
     
  17. Hartfield

    Hartfield Red Card

    Jun 15, 2005
    Bogota D.C
    #17 Hartfield, Jun 30, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    The game has been over for a couple of weeks..let it go...
     
  18. Delta Blues

    Delta Blues New Member

    Jun 25, 1999
    King Willieville
    #18 Delta Blues, Jul 1, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    Well, now the [sarcasm]fans[/sarcasm] at River decide to join in. What a dispicable display against Sao Paulo. Why is it that such normally civilized people in a great country as Argentina become sub-human refuse at futbol matches? FIFA needs to not just address this crap, but crush it out of existence! Total season bans for entities such as the Boca and River organizations. These teams front offices know, and condone this crap by not completely disowning and banning all these psycho supporters groups from ever attending a match again. An entire season ban in all competitions for these organizations would take care of the problem in short order. I would apply the same in Italy, Spain, Costa Rica and anywhere else this complete **************** is simply ignored by clubs and their officials.
     
  19. Hartfield

    Hartfield Red Card

    Jun 15, 2005
    Bogota D.C
    #19 Hartfield, Jul 1, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    It was retaliation for what happended in San Pablo.
     
  20. Delta Blues

    Delta Blues New Member

    Jun 25, 1999
    King Willieville
    #20 Delta Blues, Jul 1, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    Boy, that sure justifies it. :rolleyes: Maybe someday the likes of these *fans* will join the human race?
     
  21. Hartfield

    Hartfield Red Card

    Jun 15, 2005
    Bogota D.C
    #21 Hartfield, Jul 1, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    Don't tell me tell them..I thought that was pretty ********ed up myself did you see when they threw crap and sao's bus?

    But let me ask you a question where are you from?
     
  22. Delta Blues

    Delta Blues New Member

    Jun 25, 1999
    King Willieville
    #22 Delta Blues, Jul 1, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    Good to hear you say that. I know the alleged cause was the trouble at Sao Paulo, but at some point this stuff just has to be snuffed out totally, and severely. BTW, as my info states I'm from the USA.
     
  23. Hartfield

    Hartfield Red Card

    Jun 15, 2005
    Bogota D.C
    #23 Hartfield, Jul 1, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    Don't be suprised at this ********...this happens every year wether you hear it or not trsut me it happens. ;)
     
  24. argentine soccer fan

    argentine soccer fan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #24 argentine soccer fan, Jul 1, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    They behaved like **************s, and they were justly punished. Benitez lost his job. (He probably would have been fired as coach anyway, but he would have most likely been kept in the organization if the incident hadn't happened). Palermo and other players were suspended, some fans are facing charges, the Boca stadium was suspended, what the ******** more do you want? Give it up already.

    At least the Boca players were man enough to admit afterwards that they ********ed up big time. Palermo and the players apologized, the organization officialy appologized, even Benitez, although belatedly, took the time to go to Mexico to apologize in person to the Chivas for his reprehensible behavior.

    And yet that ************** Bofo, who NEVER apologized for his role in instigating the affair wasn't even hombre enough to face the man who went all the way to Mexico to apologize in person, and he was not hombre enough to gracefully accept the apology.

    Anybody can ******** up in the heat of battle, we all do. But how you deal with it afterwards is what defines you. And Bofo is the one who at this point continues to come up short in that regard. It's a shame he's such an ass, because he had really impressed me on the field with his awesome play, particularly in the first match, in Mexico.

    Yes, I agree we should put it behind us. I was really impressed by Chivas today. They played with lots of heart, especially the players coming right off the plane. I found myself rooting for them, because I am impressed when I see courage on the field. They came up short, but they left their heart on the field. I look forward to facing Chivas in the future, although unfortunately it won't be next year, since Boca didn't qualify for Libertadores this time around.
     
  25. Various Styles

    Various Styles Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    #25 Various Styles, Jul 1, 2005
    Re: What effect did Boca Jr's despicable behavior vs. Chivas have on Argentina soccer

    A prestigious club like Boca cant afford to have the negative image brought upon by its coaching staff and players. The apologies, imo, were an intent to clean up the clubs act and not really directed at the Guadalajara players.

    Instigating the affair ? I understand your passion for Boca but this is exagerating. Prior to the four finger obscenity, Bautista had been elbowed in the head and kicked in the ground. His only retaliation was a friendly score board reminder. Palermo was the one that started it all. His actions got the crowd worked up more than anything.

    Bofo is a very bad tempered player, it is one of the reasons why he has had problems in his prebvious clubs. In his first club, Tecos UAG, he beat up a teamate and then challanged the players that broke up the fight. So i was impressed that he didnt retaliate to Bocas agressions all game long. Chivas has been working on his mentalilty and it has shown. Bofo not wanting to face Benitez, was his way of avoiding any more problems because i guarantee you that he really wanted to kick el Chino's arse all over Guadalajara.

    And i agree with Bofos statement. All that Benitez was looking for was attention from the media. Did Benitez really need to make it public that he was going to Club Guadalajara to apologize, i think not. After the apology he was quoted as saying that he would like to work in Mexico !!! Bollocks, if he was a classy guy he wouldnt of made any fuzz and just gone on his own and apologized, Not acompanied by a Media circus.


    This is when you know that your club has gained newfound respect, when fans of prestigous clubs look forward to facing your team again. Chivas participation in Copa Libertadores has really made them a recognized club in South America.
     
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