That is what I was thinking was the case with distributing alcohol. Maybe one of our law enforcement types can fill in the details to what can or cannot be done. Here's a couple of easy suggestions: 1. Have a membership role but do not charge money. Worry about cash when things get rolling. Maybe pull a BigSoccer later and offer paying members more benefits. The role should be used mainly for contact info and distribution of information. Website, forum, email lists are critical here, I am willing to help with this area (I'm sure many of you have seen my work without knowing it of course). 2. Tailgates. Someone mentioned the importance of these and I agree. Make booze BYOB as to abide the law and not alienate non drinkers. Donation jar for food for anyone that wants to eat. Have someone in charge of talking to new people and recruiting each game. Put up some sort of sign identifing yourself and explain who are welcome to join. I walked past the tailgate last year a few times when it was in the paved lot and wouldn't know what it was if I didn't frequent these boards and thought it was some sort of private function. Nothing made me want to stop. 3. Shirts, scarves, etc. Come up with a cheap design and order based on demand. There are many services online that will allow you to store a design and allow single or bulk orders. Put a link up and let people do it themselves. No worry about cash. The rest of the stuff will come as membership grows and people become more active. It's nice to think big but be realistic with what you can accomplish.
And I understand that but for whatever reason DCU fans are the ones who have consistently posted in Columbus Supporters threads again and again. And while I appreciate the interest, the basic concept that they seem to never get is that our situation is apples and oranges compared to theirs. Their acheivements are impressive, but all of their suggestions have been tried here. It's time to start thinking outside the box.
Zak, take some uppers man. You and Placid are taking a big dump on everything, when this is just a brainstorming exercise. Let's get all the damn ideas out there and worry about specifics once the ball actually gets rolling. We need to have a goal and a direction before we worry about what's obtainable in April 06 and what we want to strive for by April 08 (or whenever). I mean, I know this goes completely against Crew Forum edicate, but could we lower the amount of negativity on this thread? I hate to be some granola munching hippie, but let's try and keep it positive and build up some momentum. It's the doom-sayers that happen to bring things to a screaching halt a lot of the time. I know, Zak, that you're jaded because of how much time and effort and energy and money and Lordknowswhatelse you put into V-Army back in the day. What you did was admirable and what you tried to accomplish was great. Things didn't work out then and it sucked donkey balls. However, I think that with as poor as things are going on the field and in the stands, CFO is going to be a little bit more willing to find agreeable ways to bring people back into the stadium. OK, so maybe you can't have a keg, so what. That's just semantics. You say drinking is primary and food is secondary... well, that's a V-Army thing. Maybe if we establish NES as something more appealing to the masses, you're going to have a bunch of members who are interested in a grilled up cheeseburger and a cold Coke rather then a 6-pack of Kroenenborg. We need to be able to be diverse as NES and if people want to hit their little clique with one of the sub-groups (Legion, V-Army, or Group X).
I'll answer the question as best I can: I'm in favor of having a section that doesn't need any names, titles or leaders. No catchy names for Rob Stone and Balboa to to refer to, just Columbus Supporters. A section where even if it's only 15 guys and girls, everyone feels capable of leading a chant. Not someplace where you wait for 2 out of 15 to carry the yoke load for everyone else. I want a section that lets things grow organically. Where chants are done based on what's going on in the run of play, not based on, it's been 2.5 minutes so we have to do another chant, let's do the sombrero song again. That's why Crew Groove is such a horrendous idea, nothing about it is organic. It has absolutely zero to do with what is going on in the run of play. My vision right now based on what Columbus have is basically just the first three or four rows of 137 all together, people mashed in. V-Army sitting next to Legion, supporters in off the streets sitting next to veteran supporters. Knowing that what needs to be focused on is the play of the team. Focusing on that should go a long ways towards putting up with people that may offend you or annoy you during a 90 minute match. I'd also want a supporters group that has teeth. I understand that the supporters group needs to be there for the team, fairplay I get that. But when you know that the coach has got to go, something absolutely needs to be done vocally. If that means that you chant Sack Andrulis! starting from 15 minutes prior to game time and then knock it off at kick off alright. But when you give up 3 goals against KC in the first 25 minutes, it needs to come back again with full voices for the rest of the match, and until they forcibly remove you from the seats 30 minutes after game time. Finally I think you need to give up on doing your own security. It just simply doesn't work. Columbus Crew don't pay me to tell someone to shut it with the offensive/racist/whatever chants, why should I risk getting smacked in the face by some obnoxious idiot? Just isn't going to happen. I'm a customer, I pay ticket prices to have fun, not police what some other guy is up to. I know that some may think that not being in charge of your own security is going to lead to heavy handed policies, but has that happen in the 6 years we've been in the stadium so far? The only thing I've ever seen anyone nicked for is throwing stuff on the field. That's my opinion, I'd be more than happy to sit down with anyone interested in hearing why it is that I believe in this.
How is your situation different? Look, this is what I know about the Columbus "supporter clubs": 1. You've got about 35-50 people on a good night to stand and sing or at least that's what it looks like on TV and the threads in here seem to confirm it. Congrats, you're La Norte on a bad night except that's all of you. 2. Most of you seem to be more preoccupied with either infighting or reacting to real or imagined slights from the Front Office. It's a sad sight that the kid from Leigon 04 seems to be the most rational, and don't forget, I've met many of you, so I know what you really are like. 3. Judging by the threads in here, it seems more than 10 of you can't agree on even a basic "Let's Go Crew" chant so you're always singing over one another. 4. You feel you're done apologizing for whatever happened 2 years ago. But you obviously haven't moved forward from that incident. 5. The last few times I've been to CCS, fans always have come up to me and said "Wow, I wish we had fans like you here!" Whenever I point them in the direction of the North End, they give me a look like they just smelled dog ********. I believe there are fans that will join a supporters club that's even decently well-run. So you ask why we're in here. It's simple. Soccer games are more fun when there's someome to sing against. We may be enemies on the pitch, but we're all in this together. I've been told the situation is apples and oranges, but I don't see that. We're offering a model that's been proven to work: in DC, Chicago and to a lesser extent LA, Jersey and New England. Obviously, you need to customize it to your circumstances. You don't need the 501(c)3 model of the Screaming Eagles, but your current model isn't cutting it either, judging by the complaints on this thread and others. Sachin
I'm not going get into an argument here but, i merely pointed out that maybe they should run road trips first before you start offering a discount. If you call that taking a dump on everything then i guess it is. Why cant we walk before we run? Get people into the North End before organisation starts. Also, Whoever said that the Nazi song must stop was right, that song is pretty offensive. My tuppence worth on songs/chanting. Heres 5. to the tune of Lord of the dance. Duncan, wherever you may be Will you be fit when we beat DC Or will you be fit when we get to win it all Duncan Oughton and his messed up knee. Interchange with Buschie, wherever you may be Jonny Busch and his..... 2) Super, Super Frank Super, super Frank Super Super Frank Super Frankie Heyduk 3) We all follow Columbus, over land and sea(and D C) We all follow Columbus on to victory Altogether now We all............... 4) "I love you Columbus,My only Columbus,You make me happy when Skies are grey, You`ve never noticed how much I love you, So please don't take my Columbus away, LA LA LA LA LA - Oo Oo 5)Start of game Get into them mess them up. Repeat
My intention is certainly not to take a dump on anything, I'm just trying to keep things as simple as possible. What's the saying, see the forrest for the trees or something? Either way, until there are a massive number of folks most of these points are moot. Doing T-Shirts and scarves involve fairly large startup costs, I'd just hate to see someone have to eat that in-order just to recoop. But again, it's just my opinion.
People aren't going to join some amorphous entity called "Crew Supporters." People will join a real club called "Crew Supporters" Hell, skip the laminated cards and just run a bunch of business cards through a laser printer and hand them out. In this country, first you have the organization, then you get the people, not the other way around. Sachin
With the utmost respect, we will continue with our infighting and lack of organisation. Thanks anyway.
I guess I've been piss'en people off lately so I hope it doens't continue here. Get outside the north end. You look sequestered over there and a lot of people don't like the view. See if you can't get a block in 106 by offereing to sell season tickets, group, and single game tickets to the section. I mean I've sat there and there are definatly people already in there who wouldn't mind raising their voices, but like their midfield seat. Plus you have the added feature of being in a central location that will make it easier to get other sections involved. How about along with memebership, have events like Free Car Washes/w donations or other money raising things in order to buy two passenger vans that can be used as shuttles to and from OSU campus. If COTA won't do it, perhaps it's time for a supporters club to do it. Something lighter would be to find a couple people with vans and give them gas money, a free ticket, and food to shuttle the college students over. I don't know that's all I got.
Regardless of our plans for the more-distant future, I plan on singing as loud as possible on Saturday. Columbus till I die
I suggest you take your hottest chick, dress her in black and send her to study Barra tailgate If you want something do it yourself, or get someone that knows how and you'll get backing of the group, that's principle Barra operate on. That's how I grew up (made 100 foot sewn banner with 3 friends when we were 15. It's still at games after 16 years), before we had membership based supporter club in Zagreb, which is kinda nice but seems to cause a lot of problems nowdays and most of BBB are not in it anyway Subgroups are much easier to organize anyway.
Placid, Zak, I was exagerating a bit. I know you guys don't want to take a dump on the ideas, it just seemed like you were shooting things down a bit. I completely understand the thought of, you have to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run. I'm just trying to mix short term and long term so that people can have some vision of what its all about and what we want to get to. Brilliant post, would rep, but must spread more before I can do that. Honestly, I would love to move out of the north end. Sure it's our turf and we've grown comfortable there, but I would much rather be at midfield of the upper deck and having a good view of the match then sitting behind the goal with compromised view. I don't know if FO would agree to 106, but I don't see why we can't get 206. This central location would also give us better/more TV time. If we could manage to get 106 or something along those lines, and we should try at least, that would be great, but I think 206 would work well. I like the fund-raiser/car wash idea for getting transport to/from OSU. We should really take a look into that. We can have fundraisers for that, and also for just tailgate expenses. I wonder if we could find a place in the parking lot where we can wash people's cars on their way out of the stadium when they're all muddy from parking in the swamp? (be hard to do, but could be a good time to get that $).
I agree with these thoughts (the principle behind it). Some people want to get people and consistent numbers before bothering with the organizing, but I think you'll never get to that point without some kind of organized effort. I'm not saying we have to have cute, flashy, inspiring (choose an adjective) promotional materials right off the bat to bring people in, but they need to see that it's going to be a decently well run organization before they're going to bother with it. I just have trouble believing that people are going to flock to some "organic" organization that is completely unorganized. First off, how the hell will these people become aware that it exists or that they should join up? How does this work, because I'm missing it, and would like to understand the concept.
Because if you have a number of people in one place making noise, people will gravitate towards it. There is no joining up.
Not to pile on here, but we started at zero just like everyone else. The SEs got big because we had a small core of dedicated volunteers who organized things like tickets, tailgates, and roadtrips. All of those started small and got larger, to the point where they are today. There's no secret to this - it takes serious dedication and a lot of work. Hopefully, Matt Mathai can come into this forum sometime and talk about the time and effort he had to put in when he started the SEs in 1995. That was when the "Washington MLS team" was just that - the team didn't even have a name yet.
Seriously, the free beer is key. I'm speaking as a second-year member of the SEs in DC here. Free-beer tailgating is an incredible selling point for getting people to matches on a consistent basis. K is right about paid membership too... but it helps to have people like her who are willing to do a lot of organizational work. Check this out: http://www.wecallitsoccer.com/archives/000400.html.
Here's my opinion as an outsider of the supporters' groups. I've never been a member of such groups, though I have considered it. I only offer these points as insight into why at least one fan hasn't joined such groups. Here's why I didn't: 1. I almost joined prior to last year, but as I got more involved on BS, the talk about the group was never positive. Why would I want to join something that everyone's always fighting over and talking down about. 2. I hated the view and preferred a midfield seat where I could see the entire run of play better. 3. Chants/songs were weak and I couldn't hear the words to join in. If I was given a flyer with song/chant words I probably would have joined in. 3a. When there were songs/chants I could hear, they sometimes tended to be racist or blantantly offensive. Again, sorry to be the Political Correctness Cop, but there is a point where you're having fun and being derrogatory to the other team and then a point where you're just being an SS. It seemed most of the time people were being drunken @sses. The drunken part I don't mind and really for the most part I don't mind the SS part unless it deals with racism mostly. 4. I would feel bad being a member of a group when I don't seem as committed as those that go to every game. In other words, I was intimidated about my level of support, even if it is more than the average supporter. I felt that since I wasn't hardcore I couldn't belong. 5. I have friends that routinely sit there and they don't belong to a group. Why join something when I can just be there with friends? 6. There was little information on the group aside from an old Web site I found. Why I did want to join: 1. I liked the idea of being part of an organized group of Columbus Supporters. 2. I liked the t-shirts. 3. I liked that everyone wore their jerseys or scarves or yellow. 4. I liked the ideal of creating an atmosphere for the game because IMHO that's part of what sets soccer apart from other American sports. 5. I love the team and would want to influence the outcome in any way I could. 6. I'm often pissed at the people I sit beside in the general admission sections that just sit there the entire time with their hands in their laps twiddling their thumbs and reading over the brochure/game handout. These are often the people that know absolutely nothing about the game so when I make some comment about a play or a tactical move they just look at me like I'm stupid. I know some of these points may be contradictory and/or unfounded and ill-informed, but that's the way I saw/see it. I hope if anything is taken from this it's that the average to above average supporters, which is probably more numerous than the hardcore supporters and the most likely to join a group, see it rather simply. They want to be a part of something, but something that's easy to get involved with that doesn't take away from the game by bad seating or the ever fickle "offensive behavior." Then again, maybe none of this is helpful because these are impossible things to accomplish. Afterall what do I know about supporters' clubs. I've never been a part of one.