This year was all the outcome of Sir Alex deciding we didn't need Veron or Beckham and could make do with young players. He also decided we didn't need more defenders even when he knew that Ferdinand was suspended. The results haven't been good. The defense allows more goals than ever and we've played nine players in Becks old right wing spot. Seba Veron is apparently not missed as Phil Neville and Nicky Butt are filling his role more than adequately (they are playing better than Seba ever did). The signing of Howard was great, though he didn't need to sell players to pay the small transfer fee. We certainly miss Becks though. Ruud said it last week, that probably ticked Sir Alex off and maybe he and the club started the rumours of Ruud transfers? They certainly were a driving force behind starting transfer rumours about Beckham last year. Is Sir Alex really considering life without Ruud? That would be suicidal for our club. Ruud scores the goals. Saha is no where near his class. Alex also messed it up when he sold Stam all those years ago. Blanc wasn't great either. After Alex let the youth team into the side from 90-94 he has had this confidence and thinks he knows more than everyone else about players. I don't think he does. He has this control problem and wants total control over players, he gets rid of players who he doesn't think fit. All this is probably hurting the club, we are too old fashioned while Arsenal and Chelsea are now finese teams of great skill, knowledge, and commoradorie while we our players act like soldiers who go to grind it out with short passes and force. We get the ball to the wing and dump it into the box. Maybe its time Sir Alex reconsidered how he runs the club or we got a new coach.
Yeah i agree, two of the biggest mistakes fergie has made was selling stam and then becks. Altho its stams own fault for writing that book, he shud've waited until he left (idiot). I think we had a great defense when we had people like ronny johnson, henning berg and jaap stam playing. Saha may not be in RvN's class but i reckon Saha will get there eventually, RvN and Saha, just need a good run together. Lets hope they get that chance next season. You say fergie doesn't know what he is doing but he did this in '94? i think when Man U won the double and within 18months 6 players had left including people like steve bruce and ppl sed then he was making a mistake and didnt know what he was doing. But he brought people throught the youths then like the nevilles, scholes, becks and butt and then went on to win the treble, so i kinda have faith in him and hope deep down he knows what hes doing. Although Man United will probably never hav players come thru the ranks anymore that are like becks and the nevilles etc. And if you want a new coach, then wish for real madrid not to win La Liga because then Queiroz will most likely be on his way back to Man Utd or so they say, just have to wait and see.
I salute you, I salute you. I agree with every blooming word in this thread. You're so right, so soooo right. I always wanted to say something like this, but didn't know how. Lets face it, we're playing like an old fart team. No pizaz, no fire, no skill. Just plain ole boring useless football. Couple that with the fact that he thinks the youth system is #1, and it probably is...FOR A 3RD DIVISION CLUB IN ADMINISTRATION... We have freakin money, why cant we buy some more freakin class for once, instead of, and I quote, "Waiting for the next gem to come up from the youth system". It's so frustrating, knowing what can make the club better, but watching us shoot ourselves in the foot all the time.
Selling Beckham and Veron was fine. Playing people out of position, not purchasing defenders when it's clearly necessary, using overly defensive tactics against terrible bunkering sides, buying 83 players that all play the same position, and benching your best players for stupid reasons... that's not fine. The man has lost his marbles. Ring up Didier Deschamps.
Yep. I really don't think we're missing Becks and Veron as much as people think. Really, how much had either of them done the past few seasons? Arguably their combined combinations last year were less than Ronaldo's this year. The problem is tactics, squad selection, and lack of depth to cover for injuries and suspensions. None of those should have to be issues at United, and yet here we are.
Well he must have forgotten to miss Becks when he had 18 goals through his first 24 Premiership matches. The whole "we miss Becks" thing sounds like an excuse for Fergie's piss poor midfield selections.
Quieroz is definetly not staying in Madrid...hell, if they'll fire Del Bosque after winning the league and making it the CL semis with Perez's policy of "Zidanes y Pavones", they'll fire Quieroz for losing to Barca at home, let alone Monaco in the CL, ...and it doesn't look good for them in the league. I don't know if he'll be back at Old Trafford, but we'll have to see. I was glad to see Veron gone. The only good game from last year that I can remember was against Juventus in Turin.
Just adding to the thread I started, when I was talking about 1994 when we let in all those young guys like Beckham, the Nevilles, Giggs (who actually was earlier), Nicky Butt, and Paul Scholes I meant that turned out to be a brilliant decision. Letting Kanchelskis and Ince leave turned out to be okay too. I agree Veron didn't bring anything to the team and didn't help us at all. I agree Ronaldo and Tim Howard are awesome young players. However, I highly disagree with whoever said that Ronaldo helped us more this year than Becks and Veron combined last year. Beckham was much better than Ronaldo (Just ask Ruud!). Ronaldo has helped more than Veron but he doesn't play Veron's spot and therefore can't really be compared. Phil Neville (Sometimes Nicky Butt and Djemba-Djemba) replaced Veron and is much better than Veron was. Also, Ronaldo has helped us more do what? We haven't won anything yet, maybe we'll get the FA cup, but I demand more. Beckham won the Treble! Together they got us to the quarter of the CL every year! I think Fletcher is highly overrated and shouldn't be starting for us but I can't think of any other midfield selections that were really bad. I don't think Giggs should be up front, he should be left wing and Ronaldo should be right wing. The defense is the biggest problem. Buy some defenders!
I disagree that defense is the biggest problem. The last few games, with the same back four we have not been conceeding many. Problem was that Brown was brought back before he was match fit. Sure we need better cover here, but not the biggest problem - these must surely be; 1. lack of midfield creativity 2. lack of class strike cover for Ruud/Saha 3. lack of defensive cover All compounded by problem 0 which is SAF's tactics; in particular playing players out of position (POOP!), unwarranted chopping and changing of the side, playing too defensively (esp midfield selection), not managing big name players properly (they are not schoolkids), bringing back too early and straight into the middle an unfit Wes Brown, not bringing in a number two for so long then choosing Walter, precipitating off-field distractions (horse, agents), letting Becks go before securing cover (probably the plc), thinking Darren Fletcher is a winger, thinking Giggs is a striker, thinking he can play Scholsie anywhere etc. etc. I will forgive SAF all the above, because his strengths greatly outnumber his weaknesses and on the whole SAF knows best. The one I won't forgive, because there is no reasonably excuse, is playing good players in positions they do not want to play. Even without our best personnel, as soon as we reorganise in games to playing people in the right places we have looked far far better. POOP is also leading in my opinion to the unrest in the squad. You get the feeling from the players of 'FAITH NO MORE' which is more dangerous to a football club than anything else.
The nucleus of the team is aging. Ronaldo showed a good amount of potential, but I am concerned with Giggs and Keane, perhaps they are slowing down some.
After 36 matches, 34 this year. Entire League Season 02/03=34 01/02=45 00/01=31, 99/00=45, 98/99=37 You wouldn't happen to work for the Sun? Based on the managerial career SAF has had, why wouldn't he feel the way that you opine he does. And if he thinks a player doesn't fit, why would he want them to remain with the club? Becks is a great player, but it was time for him to go, and if he'd remained, the revelation that Ronaldo has been would likely have never occurred. This has been a frustrating season, but surely the quota's been met on threads of this nature; ad nauseum discussion (to which I realize I'm contributing )and knee jerk reactions. Fire him, sell him, buy him... And as for players out of position, fair enough, I've disagreed with certain moves Sir Alex has made, and fans have every right to critique such decisions, but the man is pure and simple a LEGEND, and he deserves and has earned a fair amount of lattitude. Many have disparaged his decisions in the past, but more often than not, time has proven them correct. If next season is a repeat of this one and nothing is learned, then maybe the gaffer should retire, but I wouldn't expect that to be the case. Recent history suggests I've got a good reason to be optimistic.
The problem of missing Rio Ferdinand hasn't been mentioned here, so I will mention it. After all United was a very good team in the first part of the season, so the big question should be what changed since that point.
You want to bring in the man that King Eric called a 'water carrier'? I disagree with many of Fergie's decisions & I have for the past few years as he has tried to remake United into a more defensive team but I certainly don't think he has lost it. Obviously someone wants Deschamps to take over (I assume he's serious even though I can't believe it), but who would other people want to be the Gaffer? Big name or unproven young manager? There isn't anyone with anywhere near Fergie's experience who hasn't had bad seasons. My first choice would be Fabio Capello.
Martin O'Neill and Carlos Queiroz are the obvious picks for the next manager, I think. Both have been at large clubs and have experience with huge games, and I think that Queiroz especially could fit in well. More outside shots include Alan Curbishley, who has done a marvelous job at Charlton all things considered, though they are hardly a large club.
Those are the names you hear all the time, but they don't have a whole lot of trophies between them. When Fergie came in he hadn't really been at a big club but he had won trophies despite that. Winning titles in Scotland & Europe with Aberdeen was a huge achievement. Anybody who was brought in now would have to win right away. The board wouldn't show the same patience they did with Fergie.
Deschamps perspective of Cantona is fair, if you look at how Cantona performed internationally and in club competition in Europe. Great player... a legend for us... but he never did as well outside of England. I think Deschamps has done very well, with very little... in a high quality league. His team plays an attractive, attacking style.
Really? It does? 34 goals in 36 games does't seem to say that to me. Last year we let in 34 in 38 games. And we let in 45 when we finished 3rd 2 years ago. The timing of some of the goals may be worse. But I don't agree that the defense is allowing mroe goals than ever. And I don't agree with the idea that buying a player given Rio's suspension was prudent in the long run. What happens to that player once Rio returns? What does it do for the teams chemistry? What changed this year is that Arsenal has had the impossible season and Chelsea got a heck of a lot better.
We are not even one season removed from winning the league and people think Fergie has lost it already? Yes, we sold Beckham and Veron and Fergie's choice to replace both was scuppered by kenyon's bottling of the Ronaldinho deal. The transfer window was fast approaching, so we decided to bring in Ronaldo earlier than we had planned. He's worked out well and so has Howard. We were hurt by Ole's injury, Scholes' injury/op, Djemba's Cameroon ANC, Fortune's injury, and until Rio's suspension - we were still top. Next season the other players we bought last summer will be a year older and have a year with the club under their belts, some of our youth squad will start to come into the side, and we haven't even bought anybody yet! (besides Miller, who's highly rated) Fergie was forced to go young when the Ronaldinho deal went wrong, and we were still getting it done. Sure, it wasn't pretty and it's been a stop/start season, but we're rebuilding as we speak. Sure, you can criticize Fergie's tactics and squad selections this year, but ultimately I'm keeping the faith. This team wasn't built for fighting for 2nd place you know.
Rather, it sounds like an excuse for not being able to put the damn ball in the back of the net... Ruud has missed about 5-8 sitters, I mean goals that we would expect Bellion to score or even Fletcher or someone like that in the last say, month before he was "injured" Ruud has been off form.. not just missing goals that should be scored, but also not scoring those that make you go wow... he was always a clinical finisher, but he also had the ability to take on defenders, not like Henry, but he has blown by a few before and also to out hustle them, muscle them in the box, and then of course turn a simple ball to him (facing away from goal) at the edge of the box into a goal in about half a second with a first touch and shot/volley that is like a rocket... he's been a bit off... he is still great and will recapture his form... right now... SAF is getting to me... Ruud will recover I know... but I am not so sure about SAF...
I think there is a lot of over reaction here. Sure some of the squad selections have been less than stellar. But remember at the first of the season we all thought it would be a rebuilding year, which is what it turned out to be. I see a lot of potential in many of our young players, those in the first team and in the reserves. Players like Djemba Djemba, Fletcher, Bellion have all gotten better this year. I am willing to have one painful down year in exchange for the potential to go raight back to the top for awhile. That is exactly what I think will happen. This summer I am looking for us to make some smart buys, I'm sure there will be some surprises. Those new players combined with the added experience our young players got this year should make for an exciting new season. I am not ready to give up on SAF.
I think this all hinges on your own answer to the following two questions; 1. Could another manager have done better this year in the same context of injuries / suspensions? 2. Managers, like players, reach a peak, then their abilities and influence declines. Has SAF reached that point? For me, I feel the answer to 1 is YES. I know it sounds like I am labouring the point, but how many times has the team looked far better in the last ten minutes when SAF has put players back in their natural positions. You would have to assume that Queiroz or O'Neil would play them there for 90 minutes. For me, the answer to 2 is YES. Not just on this season but in context of the last few seasons. We had one purple patch last year after Christmas, but other than that we have been wildly inconsistent. I honestly feel that SAF has started to loose the confidence of some of the players - nothing is more cancerous in a football club than players not having the faith. He is the best manager in English football history, however as with all things, the Ferguson era will have to end at some point. Ideally he should be given another year (without it being publicly stated as such) and a successor prepared. This becomes a logistics issue, there must only be four or five contenders for the job (Quieroz, O'Niel, Wenger, Erikson and a couple of coaches of foreign teams) so it may be determined more by availability of replacement than anything else. I think a return to playing our best 11 in the natural positions in a 4-4-2 with the squad we have plus one or two additions will get us back to playing the way were used to. I am not sure SAF will deliver this.
You're trying to claim this is a 1 year blip? It's a 3 year blip. We were 3rd two years ago, after dishing out 46m on RVN and Veron. Veron was a 28m flop. Forlan was bought later in the year, 7.5m. Flop. This year? Kleberson - not used. Djemba-Djemba - fairly unimpressive. Bellion - unimpressive. We didn't buy needs, a defender and a winger, and a striker, at the beginning of the year. SAF waited until January to buy a striker, and never bought a defender. We've got a ton of CMs... and a dearth of wingers. John O'Shea can rampage up a wing - yet is almost never allowed to do so. Ryan Giggs isn't a striker - but often plays there. Ronaldo is our best winger - yet starts at wing less than Darren Fletcher, who can't play the position for his life. He plays half-dead veterans (Butt, in particular) over youngsters with potential. He plays two DM's against teams that plan to bunker down (and with only 1 striker sometimes). We've gone from the semi-finals of the CL 2 years ago, to the quarters last year, to the octofinals this year. We've finished 3rd 2 out of the last 3 seasons - and to be fair, one last year only because of an Arsenal collapse (does not diminish our own accomplisments - but we were in a big hole in March). SAF isn't the manager he was 5 years ago. I think that goes without saying. He's only going to get worse. WHy let him?
Well said haven. Plus and even more importantly for me, the football of the last three years has been pretty dire in comparison to the football we played in the nineties.
There's no question that Alex has made numerous errors this season but for me the greatest is the way he's allowed the squad to thin out. I'm aware that with today's wages you can no longer have 17/18 first class players and cover for everyone but you do need 14/15 to take care of injuries, loss of form and burnouts and then half a dozen second level players. We went into the season with just one striker injured (Solskjaer) and we then had just one quality striker (RvN) and Forlan. That was hopeless for a club with CL ambitions. When we lost one defender, Rio, we were reduced to bringing back Brown well before he was ready and our defence went from the best in the league to relegation standard for 6-8 matches until Brown recovered fully. If we lose Scholes then we have no central attack midfield worthy of the name. The complete loss of penetration in the last three matches bears that out. You cannot afford to have the team quality reduce so drastically because one or two players are not available. Utd currently have a dozen or so quality players and then the quality drops or we have players for the future. A couple of injuries, a need to rest a player, and weaknesses quickly come into the side. To minimise that, players are played out of position (with a resulting reduced performance even from the quality players) and a compensating team formation is used - since Rio's absence we've repeatedly sacrificed our attacking options to compensate for defensive weakness. I don't think there's any question that Alex intended to play 4-4-2 when he brought Saha in but defensive weakness scuppered that and the two defensive midfielders that became the norm when we had only one striker continued to be the norm to support the weak defence. For me the lack of squad depth was the primary flaw which then lead to the later problems of players out of position and defensive formations. Hopefully we will get the two or three quality players we need during this summer off-season which will remove some of the squad weaknesses and maybe we'll see more from players like DjDj, Bellion, Kleberson and Fletcher.