What cardio work do you do?

Discussion in 'Player' started by lnicholson29, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. lnicholson29

    lnicholson29 Member

    Jul 25, 2010
    Manchester, UK
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Basically, over the past year I have focused on weightlifting, and I gave very little attention to cardio as the number of games for football last year were kinda limited due to exams and bad weather. Now that I'm off to uni, i'd like to incorporate some football specific cardio back into my workout. So Im just looking for advice on what to do and see what others do?
     
    july321 repped this.
  2. ejgrownarseman

    Jul 19, 2012
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Aside from simply playing, not a whole lot if I'm being honest. Although I don't do them for cardio reasons, 20 rep squats will certainly test your cardiovascular fitness just as well as anything.
     
  3. Elbullio

    Elbullio Member

    Dec 24, 2010
    If you want to increase your fitness level, do the 30-20-10 interval training. My team always does it during pre-season and startup.
    30 seconds of jogging, 20 seconds 0f 50-60 percent max speed and 10 seconds full speed. Dont hold back - repeat 5-6 times. Builds up fitness and stamina extremely fast.
     
  4. lnicholson29

    lnicholson29 Member

    Jul 25, 2010
    Manchester, UK
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    @Elbullio So that interval training sounds like it only takes 6 mins. I couldnt think of anything worse than 30+ mins of running on a treadmill. 6 minutes is how i'd like a cardio session to be if its effective. Thanks
     
  5. purprdarkr

    purprdarkr New Member

    Sep 14, 2013
    Basel
    Club:
    --other--
    Hitt for 15 minutes is a good contioning exercise
     
  6. dejansavicevic10

    Jun 12, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    For me, I try my best to vary my ESD routine. Surprisingly, I dont run, or jog for cardiovascular fitness. I use the elliptical machine, moutain bike, versa climber, rowing machine to address different types of energy systems, as in some days interval, some days hills, some days random, etc. I dont run, because I want to reduce the amount of stress on my joints. Personally, I think if you get your heart rate between 160-175 bpms for about 10-15 minutes, you should be good.
     
  7. Enxienty

    Enxienty Member

    Jul 29, 2008
    Bringing this back from the dead because this seems to be my biggest issue in my game hehe :)

    Do you think if I do the 30-20-10 technique for about 3 - 4 times a week ( pre season , no games during the weeks ) will my fitness increase a lot over the timespan of 2 months? I have a bad habit of rushing fitness at the last minutes and usually end of getting injured, so Im trying to build up some sort of a plan for the winter
     
  8. Elbullio

    Elbullio Member

    Dec 24, 2010
    You have to gradually increase fitness levels as you ease your way into the pre season.

    This means that you should be running, but not as much in the beginning. Depending on your general fitness level, do a lot of ball work, and build your fitness gradually. You have to get the body used to stressing the joints and performing sprints, quick bursts of energy during short periods of time. The takeaway here, is NOT peaking too soon. As you write, you get injured during the season by rushing your fitness. You want to be around 70-80% fitness when you reach the first game.

    Only biking and doing ESD for cardio fitness (as Dejan writes above) is good for sustaining fitness once you have it, but not building a football ready body during pre season. Actually, you convert some of the quick twitch muscle fibres into slow twitch by doing these sorts of workouts, loosing some of the explosiveness. Which is exactly why sprinters alike are not permitted to bike at all.

    You could perhaps write about your injuries you get during the season? Are they from overload ie. hamstring, muscle imbalances or sprained ankles?
     
  9. Enxienty

    Enxienty Member

    Jul 29, 2008
    Yes there usually silly little injuries like hamstring , glutes etc , nothing serious but tweeks that have prevented me from playing a game here or there.


    So do you suggest for the first 2-3 weeks do a lot of agility work, short sprints etc , and then move on to more of the long distance sprinting ?
     
  10. Jossie Calderon

    Jossie Calderon New Member

    Dec 15, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You can't do long distance sprinting. Even if the human body was able to do long distance sprinting (more than 400m), it would be completely useless in a football game - the ball would be taken away at any chance, and top speed isn't a big deal because you never sprint for more than 30-40m at any given time. You reach top speed at 60m of 100% effort running. (This isn't to say speed is useless, au contraire; you need to be able to change direction fast, and accelerate fast). In a football game, you're probably doing 80% running, at 30-40m bursts - but many times. So strength endurance is a big factor here.In response to your question, you should concentrate on conditioning in the form of GPP (general physical preparedness) for your pre-season/first game tops, and then start training sprints - no more than 60m sprint training is necessary, and 20-30m sprints should be the bulk of your training.Let me know if this helps.
     
  11. Enxienty

    Enxienty Member

    Jul 29, 2008
    Ok I think i have a general idea of what I should be doing, for the first 2-3 weeks however im going to be doing a lot of sprint and agility work with the ball first to get my muscles re-used to the movements, and then once thats over with, work on the endurance part
     
  12. Jossie Calderon

    Jossie Calderon New Member

    Dec 15, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You have it backwards.
     
  13. Enxienty

    Enxienty Member

    Jul 29, 2008
    Hmm really so endurance work first?
     
  14. Jossie Calderon

    Jossie Calderon New Member

    Dec 15, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    You want to work on endurance first so you will be able to outlast your opponents in your matches. If you train sprints first, you are building up speed, great for beating opponents - but don't complain in this forum when you lose your form in the second half.
    Best,JC
     
  15. dejansavicevic10

    Jun 12, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    This is my approach and it works for me. I do what I do and it works for me at the level that I play at, and limits the impact on my joints. However, in soccer you are kinda a decalethe of track; at the highest levels you have to be able to run almost non stop, all out sprint, jog, go 50-60 percent of speed, and so on. 1000 m races are used by teams like Ajax during the pre season, and we know that will address your aerobic needs. There have to be additional work to address your lactate and anaerobic needs though.

    However, as much possible, training routines/fitness routines should be specific for the needs of the individual athlete. Based on what you have said, something similar to Jossie has recommended or a tabata type sprint routine will probably be best, especially considering you are not a professional athlete and want to address your conditioning issues in the shortest amount of time.
     
    rca2 repped this.
  16. Elbullio

    Elbullio Member

    Dec 24, 2010
    Naturally, every athlete is different, so whatever works for you may not work for somebody else. However, strengthening your joints is vital in staying injury free and maintaining good health.

    Clearly, the OP struggles with his approach. In terms of track being similar to football, i disagree. Track is full speed ahead in almost straight lines. Football is all about changes in direction and speed, making it very different from track from a bodily perspective. The 1000 meter race my team use as well - exept we do 800 meter. The purpose for doing these are because you want to measure your form, as well as your ability to handle lactic build up. When the professional teams do the test, they take a little blood from every player to measure oxygen and lactic acid levels in the blood immediatly before and after the test.
     
  17. Jossie Calderon

    Jossie Calderon New Member

    Dec 15, 2013
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I agree that isn't a bad idea. I registered for my first 5K 3 days ago.
     
  18. dejansavicevic10

    Jun 12, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    Ebu

    I am fully aware that track is different from soccer as in speed vs velocity. I don't see where I said track and soccer have the same requirements. The one thing that lnicholson29 is asking for is improving his conditioning, he is not requesting agility or change in direction training. The easiest approach to improving e conditioning for soccer is to increase your Vo2max. We are all fond of the tabata routine sprint routines because it increases both anaerobic and aerobic performance at the same time and does it it in a very time efficient manner. However, the one thing that most people don't seem to realize is that Vo2max can be increased also with longer distances, because it is the point at which you are exerting yourself so much aerobically that your body is on the verge of switching to the anaerobic energy system.
     
    rca2 repped this.
  19. Elbullio

    Elbullio Member

    Dec 24, 2010
    dejan

    You wrote
    Which is why you lead me to believe you wish to compare football and decathlon, which you obviously cannot.
    Aside from that, it is not called tabata routine, it is called Bangsbo Intervals, named after the former physical coach at Juventus, Jens Bangsbo. (Full scientific article here: http://jap.physiology.org/content/113/1/16.lon)

    You are right about the fact that vo2max can also be improved by longer distances or over longer periods of time, however this also requires increased time, and access to biking, machines, facilities. which may not be available for everyone.

    Getting back on topic, i would advise Enxiety to split his pre season into two parts. First, he problably have overdeveloped quads compared to hamstrings (Amateur footballers curse) You need to strengthen your hamstrings and make sure the glutes are firering properly. Romanian deadlifts, nordic hamstring, and glute bridges exercises are really valuable here. That should prevent any hamstring, glute injuries during the season.

    Next part, endurance and agility: Changes of direction, acceleration and getting the body used to running and joint stress (no sprinting more than a couple of seconds. The 10-10-10 drill is also good(Start from sideline and run to opposite sideline in max 10 seconds, 10 times with 10 seconds of rest in between). Check out the Nike Academy if you need inspiration for these.
    After a months time, you are ready to increase the intensity, incorporating the Bangsbo intervals into the training regimen. Remember though, no sprints during pre season should be over 10 seconds.

    Let me know if you have any questions.
    Enxienty
     
  20. dejansavicevic10

    Jun 12, 2009
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Nigeria
    Elbullio,

    This is what annoys me about posting on this forum. When you don't know, say you don't know. However to come out and say there is no such thing as tabata protocol shows a certain deficiency in your thinking. Today is the first time I have heard about the 10-20-30 approach officially called the Bangsbo routine. Based on reading the attached link you sent, it sounds very promising.

    When I use the word decathlete of track phrase, I am referring to the different energy systems that in use on the soccer field. You have to have a high level of fitness, jog, all out sprints, medium intensity running.

    I have attached a link to the abstract of Izumi Tabata's research paper for your enlightening!
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8897392

    I like the Tabata routine, because not only would it improve VO2max, but it will also increase your anaerobic capacity, but most importantly it is very time efficient.

    I don't know it all, I learn something new everyday; but I am fine with saying, I don't know when I don't. Please do some research, before responding to posts.
     
  21. Elbullio

    Elbullio Member

    Dec 24, 2010
    They are based on the same principles according to your article.Pushing your system to the edge, but if done wrong it can lead to injury, and certainly require some level of prerequisite fitness.

    I still think decathlon is wrong to use, as changing direction is not present in ANY track discipline, while it is fundamental in football. I get your idea, but your examples are not comparable to football, as stressing joints, ligaments etc. vis-a-vis the enormous requirements to agility and balance is not present in ANY linear track like disciplines.

    I think we fundamentally agree, so lets not derail this post further. If you have anything practical to add to my draft of enxiety's pre season training regimen, please do so.
    If not, OPs question have been answered, and the thread can be closed.
     
  22. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    #22 rca2, Dec 28, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
    You might know something about football, but you certainly appear ignorant about track and field. You also refuse to acknowledge that the discussion was about endurance and that means dealing with the different energy systems. I thought the analogy to the decathlon with its broad range of requirements was clear and appropriate.

    Discussing "linear track" events is begging the question. His comparison was to the decathlon--ten running, jumping and throwing events.
     
  23. Elbullio

    Elbullio Member

    Dec 24, 2010
    The discussion was about how the member Enxienty could improve his pre season training regimen and avoid injuries. I used to suffer from the exact same injuries, and did a few - but effective - changes in my pre season training, and have not been injured since.

    As for energy systems, your argument here is pointless. Both Dejan and myself agree on the fact increasing the aerobic fitness levels (and lactic) are key to build up during the pre season, and is best done by short but effective training, like the Bangsbo intervals or Tabata routine that pushes the body to the verge of the anaerobic state. However this is to be done with caution during first part of pre season, as further pushing yourself increases the risk of injury, especially if you are injury prone to begin with - as Enxiety indicates.

    Furthermore, i will acknowledge the fact that decathlon has a lot of requirements to the athlete I will however not acknowledge that those requirements are similar to those of football - basically because it lacks events that test important football skills, including:

    1) Endurance (the longest event is the 1500 meters—Very far away from the average 10k covered in a football match)

    2) Recovery (Continuously testing the anaerobic capacity over 90 minuttes, The ability to recover between sprints and produce the same level of power repeatedly is not tested in any way in decathlon)

    3) Agility - to a certain degree (I’m talking the ability to weave in and out of traffic the way football players do without losing footing).
     
  24. cpwilson80

    cpwilson80 Member+

    Mar 20, 2001
    Boston
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm a big fan of the Adidas miCoach training programs (no affiliation):

    http://micoach.adidas.com/

    Select "football", choose your level, and away you go. I've used this for the past year or so, and I definitely noticed an uptick in my speed and stamina. There's a strong focus on interval training for cardio, and I complemented that with a strength and flexibility plan (the Xavi one seemed to work the best.)
     

Share This Page