The same Mozambique who kicked out its entire white population after gaining independence from Portugal?
The one and the same. Perhaps they have learned from their mistake. Zimbabwe may learn that same lesson too late.
So all in all those dumb ******************s should be happy those white farmers own 70% of their country and once in a while give them a little of their wealth. djesus the arrogance of some here is stunning
The ignorance of others even more so ... Whether you like it or not, the white farmers that own these lands are a) by any recognised international standard in legal possession of the land and b) the country's breadwinners. "Now and then sharing a little wealth" is a nonsense. When the white-owned and run agricultural system in Zimbabwe was running as per normal, the country was a net exporter in many of the basic constitutents. Now it is a country incapable of feeding itself, let alone making any money off working the land. The real tragedy here is that any land that does actually make it past the Mugabe elite and into the hands of "war veterans" will be run into the ground within five years or so in any case. The notion that you can resettle a section of the population that has, for the best part of two generations, been primarily urban in composition and expect them to farm the land to provide for themselves and the country's wider needs is preposterous. If the democratic opposition to Mugabe is not a suitably non-biased source for you, ask any Kenyan.
I'm not here to defend Mugabe. Not at all, but the guy was the roll model for African rulers for years. The only thing that changed lately is his plan todisown Britsh farmers from their land. Now all of a sudden the guy is pure evil (he but why wasn't he pictured that way 5 years ago?). Indeed Mugabe's plans are the reason for upcoming famine. The way in which it is done and the timing let alone the reasons why are awfull. Nevertheless the principle of giving the land to the people of Zimbabwe is nothing more than justified. The idea that they should give money to british landowners to get the land back that those same British stole is ludicrous. The argument that if this would happen famine and economic disaster would break out is pure blackmail. If Europe and the Western world is soo concerned about famine they should help making this justified transition as smooth as possible instead of just opposing to these landreforms.
I'll ask my wife as soon as I get home. Actually, I did ask my (Kenyan-born) wife what she thought about the situation in Zimbabwe. My own feelings are mixed...I feel sympathy for the white farmers, (ESPECIALLY those who bought land after independence) but I also recognize that there is an inherited injustice at work here. My wife surprised me by being much more sympathetic to the whites than I was. Maybe that's because the white population in Kenya is relatively smaller and more integrated into Kenyan society, or maybe there's less of a problem with landlessness.
White Zimbabweans are as entitled to their position in the country as the blacks that Mugabe seeks to reward at their expense. This is where this PC bullshit all falls down. The "colonial legacy" argument is in this instance (as in so many others) a straw man designed to shirk the awkward truth that a farmer, born on his family's land in the country of Zimbabwe, is entitled to retain that land in accordance with the legal deeds he inherited from his father, or his father's father. Even if that farmer is white. And sorry - but the fact that the presence of white people of any kind is the random consequence of events up to 130 years ago, when some male ancestor of the farmer was with Rhodes and his buddies when they carved through that part of the world in pursuit of their Cape-to-Cairo railway is neither here nor there. And what's this toss about blackmail? Jesus - head in the sand or what? The settlers - the black population of Zimbabwe at large - is not capable of running the Zimbabwean agriculture industry. End of bloody story, mate. So, removing those people capable of feeding the country from their means of doing so is directly, exclusively and inarguably the reason why, in the months and years to come, thousands of people will die because their country doesn't provide them with enough of the few basics needed to survive. Blackmail? Bollocks. Naked truth. And it's entirely Mugabe's fault. These "Land Reforms" are directly responsible for killing the country of Zimbabwe and many many thousands of the people who live there. White and black. So fine - ignore the realities of an agricultural system being violently denuded of the only people capable of running it. Ignore the validity of present day circumstance ahead of the oh-too-easy bleating about historical legacy. Nod earnest agreement to the uncomplicated, uncomplicating notion of "Mugabe = Bad Man" and content yourself with the delusion that that is enough of a concessioon from your unrealistic views on the matter of forced resettlement. But don't expect to be taken seriously.
Dave - the process could never be repeated in Kenya because most of the farmland is now in the hands of a few rich blacks, all Moi's cronies, of course. In the 1960's and 1970's the governments of Kenyatta and then Moi created huge cooperatives which bought the vast white-owned farms up and parcelled them up into 10 acre plots, which were then handed out to the population on a subscription basis. Needless to say, the very effects we are now seeing in Zimbabwe occured in Kenya also - vast, hugely productive agricultural centres ("farms" is too twee a word for these places really) turned into semi-arrid savannah within a generation. Now the Masai and the Kikuyu farm their bony cattle on these lands, but that's about it. Only the intervention of the UN and the installation of massive western farming concessions keep the Kenyan food production process on a relatively even keel.
Sorry but that is as superficial as possible: he idea of "now it is like that and therefore it will always be like thatand in the end it should be like that". Dificulties of the present do not compensate for crimes of the past. This is nothing more than the arrogance of power.
Sorry but that is as superficial as possible: he idea of "now it is like that and therefore it will always be like thatand in the end it should be like that". Dificulties of the present do not compensate for crimes of the past. This is nothing more than the arrogance of power. Crap. Again. The “arrogance of power”? What power does Zimbabwe’s tiny white population have? Precious little, given that thousands of them are being forced from the land they were born on and hounded out of the country, more often than not by violent means. It is clear that you have never, not ever ever, been anywhere near Africa. As to the rest of it, the “crimes of the past” are, as I have said, an emotive straw man that cuddly types like yourself in the west (who have, almost uniformly, like you, never, not ever ever, been near Africa) use to hide themselves from the uncomfortable reality that white Africans exist and that they have the same rights as anyone else on that benighted continent. You can bleat all you like about the presence of white people in Africa as “a crime of the past”, the reality unfolding in southern Africa is a human tragedy that is every bit as acute and stupid as the issues you are getting your self-righteous, western little knickers in a twist about. You will find few people more vociferous than myself on the practical, historical realities of colonialism but, unlike you, I choose to enter such discussions from a basis of knowledge, both of the events of the past and the Africa of today.
This really has nothing to do with farming or having been in afrioca. The simple fact that Mugabe was the example of how African leaders should be untill he toughed white farmers is simply as hypcorite as possible. As is by the way a situation where less than 10% of the people own 70% of the land.
This has everything to do with farming and being in Africa - that’s the central point. Only to self-righteous, well-fed observers from afar can any other matter be more pressing. To the white people in fear of their lives in their own country, this has everything to do with farming and being in Africa. To the refugees from ZANU political violence this has everything to do with farming and being in Africa. To the increasingly large number of people staring death by starvation square in the face this has everything to do with farming and being in Africa. Only to smug, witless outsiders is this anything to do with anything else. Certainly, no one with any real or important involvement in this has the time to pontificate airily about the hypocrisy of western policy toward Mugabe. Join the real world, kiddo. PS - the gorgeous irony of all this is that your airy-fairy, completely clueless, irretrievably distanced perspective on the issue is totally identical to the mindset that drove Victorian Europe’s support for and pursuit of the colonial agenda.
Looks like it's far more easy to play the man than to play the ball isn't it? Nothing more than some general insults of airyness and -clichés as "join the real world". In my very first post I already said this policy causes famine. But that by no means gives anybody the right to look over the total hypocrisy of the West. Standing from a distance brings the objectivity some other lack.
No but analysing the problem and looking at mistakes made earlier making sure not to make them again, brings the long term effects that africa is lacking for decades now
ROFL! You’re too much. Fine, you’re welcome to that moral high ground you cling so desperately to. You go on “taking on” the blemishes of this messed-up world of ours through intellectually bankrupt whingeing on the Internet Whilst you focus your energies on the creation of ever-smugger platitudes about the historical debt of the western world, those of us who prize actual knowledge over third-hand “objectivity” will get on with making our way through the real world.
I don't know of a single historical instance where land redistribution has been carried out in a peaceful and just manner. White farmers are paying for the sins of their fathers. Mugabe is not the exception: this whole story has been replayed a hundred times over the past hundred years. It's an historical inevitability.
interesting articles D-DAY FOR 2,900 FARMERS IN ZIMBABWE ZIMBABWE WILL BECOME A DESERT SAYS ECONOMIST http://www.etherzone.com/2002/lamp082002.shtml There is only food available for half the country of 13 million people. Robert Mugabe is employing the tactics of Pol Pot It's quite simple. Those who have Zanu PF cards get food; those who don't starve . http://www.zwnews.com/issuefull.cfm?ArticleID=4969 Zimbabwe's first lady, Grace Mugabe, has chosen the white-owned farm she wants and has ordered its elderly owners and residents off the land, it emerged yesterday. Mrs Mugabe has picked the Iron Mask Estate, 30 miles north west of Harare, which belongs to John and Eva Matthews, both in their seventies. The couple abandoned their home at the weekend. http://www.zwnews.com/issuefull.cfm?ArticleID=4975
How did this result in land redistribution? Most of the serfs went to the new industries in the cities and provided cheap labor. What was the purpose for the emancipation of the serfs in the first place.
Re: interesting articles I agree with the Pol Pot analogy you used later in your post. Zimbabwe is heading for a disaster of 1970s Cambodia proportions and Mugabe is steering Zimbabwe right into it.
The US is sending a couple hundred thousand tons of food to south (little "s") Africa, and I'm sure alot (if not most) of it is going to Zimbabwe. So that's what the US is doing...we're subsidizing Mugabe. In a related story, George Bush is soon undergoing surgery to put in a see-through stomach, so that he can see where he's going despite having his head up his own a**.
Well, I'm no fan of Dumbya's either, but in this instance it's a real case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't", wouldn't you say? If he stinges on the food aid to a famine region, he's a callous bastard, if he sends food despite clear evidence that Mugabe is just creaming it off to suit his own needs, he's a witless fool. Same goes for all western leaders and authorities - it's a lose/lose.
If I was one of those farmers I would burn everything and salt the earth. If I can't have neither can you.