West Germany's 1954 World Cup win may have been drug-fuelled, says study...

Discussion in 'Soccer History' started by Bolivianfuego, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #26 PuckVanHeel, Dec 31, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
    I don't think one is comparing like with like. Just as many would not equate the 1980s UK track&field athletics programme with the GDR practices. Maybe they would have liked it to do far more systematically and organized, a command structure with something more useful than amphetamines as default panacea, but that was beyond their imagination and reach (and culture perhaps, as explained in that book some despise by David Winner). That is my take and opinion, as indicated in post #21. Besides, the Rep story was not coincidentally put forward by a 'Germany correspondent' (shows their dominant position in perception shaping again).

    To turn it around, the proof that FIFA knew about positive tests (though not in 1954), and only thought about a cover-up and hiding it for a few decades, does for me invalidate the achievements. That definitely creates an unequal playing field.

    What someone has to think about incidental use of (almost only) amphetamines before big games is a good question.
     
  2. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Btw, when I read that book and the football history of several nations was outlined in the way he did, it struck me how many 'great' nations had been influenced by state-led policies, in whichever way. Major exceptions (with the state more at the background for promoting football/sports development and resurgence) with a noticeable football history are - among others: Uruguay, Netherlands, Denmark, arguably the British nations, Belgium, Austria, United States.
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Also great: the Sports School at Cologne is the oldest still active anti-doping lab in Western Europe (IOC/WADA accredited) but had a shadow role in stimulating organized & systemic doping too, it seems.

    Very similar to Spanish practices 40-50 years later; thankfully laboratories are closed by the WADA because of abuses and the "two way" role it had.

    NB: not every country possesses an anti-doping lab by the way.
     
  4. John Farad

    John Farad New Member

    Mar 25, 2014
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I don't have any idea but you have shared an interesting post.
     
  5. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    They were all at it..according to johnny rep ( i think ) The dutch 1974 team took performance enhancing drugs and the argentinian 1978 team did it as well.. I cant remember what argentina player it was but apparently his urine test said that he was pregnant !!
     
  6. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I recalled the saying of Kempes and Argentina78 ... but not with Holland 74 ...
    Anyway it's not ... a surprise if that's true
     
  7. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Its true... Google - johnny rep dutch 1974 doping drugs
    ... Rep said he took amphatemines before games in the seventies as did his team mates.. And he also said the south americans were high as kites when he played against them
     
  8. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    That's crazy....Explains Maradona.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    We don't know whether it was Kempes because they didn't follow the protocols. It's true that a test at one Argentinian lab showed a player was pregnant, but thanks to messing up of protocols it was never revealed who it was. Some other samples were never tested or the test results got lost somewhere.
    In any case, it's safe to say that the overall testing of players proceeded in a very chaotic fashion and not according to the usual protocols. 'Why' it was this chaotic is only guesswork.
    What Kempes did do, by the way, was skipping a drug test during the tournament for which the Brazilians filed an official complaint (somehow the testers made a notice of Kempes his refusal). Regulations clearly said that refusing a test by a player would be followed by immediate disqualification. That was the case the Brazilians tried to make.

    And for what's worth, Johnny Rep denied that he took something during the actual World Cup tournaments itself - let alone amphetamines because that was a detectable substance and not a risk he liked to take. Rep had at least the courtesy to admit it happened (can't be said about every player).

    In general, besides, not every instance is the same.
     
  10. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Who knows what they were using back in the day before proper testing and regulations.. Amphatemines were a part of daily life during the 2nd world war and no doubt it found its way into sport..
     
  11. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I did not meant Kempes took it .. but I do recall there was a rumor that Argentina 78 did abuse with some booster ... and coincident with Kempes great form in his last 3 games (QF SF and Final) a la Rossi 82
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes true, about Rossi similar stories go but with less tangible evidence.

    It'll probably pale in comparison with today's abuses and corruption politics.
     
  13. Stuart McCall

    Stuart McCall New Member

    Apr 28, 2014
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Were the Hungarian team using similar drugs?
     
  14. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    if they did, Germany would never win LOL
     
    Stuart McCall repped this.

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