Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]?

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by appoo, Sep 21, 2003.

  1. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Dude got the first hat-trick in San Jose history and reached double digits in # of Goals for a season for the first time in his career.

    I said about 6 months ago that I'm done criticizing Landon about his game and I still haven't found a reason to change that. But I also think that US Soccer fans are starting to take him for granted and not appreciating him as much as we should. Especially with all this Freddy Adu crap going on. I hate it when people say that Freddy could be our first soccer superstar, because it completly disregards (and disrespects) the superstar we have but for whatever reason don't acknowledge as a superstar. Really, who the hell cares what league he plays in, just watching him play on a good day (which happens failry often btw) you can tell he is one of the best ballers in the world.
     
  2. Wolves_67

    Wolves_67 Member

    Oct 27, 2002
    Pasadena, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just a helpful hint.. Since the game just happened you need to put an [R] in the title. :)
     
  3. Wolves_67

    Wolves_67 Member

    Oct 27, 2002
    Pasadena, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No disrespect to Landon but I think people mean, as far as Freddy possibly becoming our first superstar, that he could become our first star that is recoqnized worldwide as one of the very best players on earth and spoken of in talk of stars like Pele, Maradona, Best, Van Basten, etc..
    Just a hope but that's a different level than Landon is close to though Landon is capable of making a name that is noted as a top quality player even with Eurosnobs someday, perhaps.
     
  4. Femfa

    Femfa New Member

    Jun 3, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Still, it's a valid observation that many are focusing on either bashing (mathis) or wishful thinking (Freddy is still a kid, people) than appreciating our current young talent.

    Landon, DaMarcus, Carlos - well, heck, they're damn good. They could play in Europe, easy, but they're here and the best reasons I can think of to watch and support this league.

    If many here weren't looking for outside respect, we'd actually have time to give respect to their accomplishments.

    So I agree, Donovan is stepping it up in MLS, probably having his best year, all around, since he first arrived. Hopefully, he'll get that Honda award - I think he deserves it.
     
  5. whip

    whip Member

    Aug 5, 2000
    HOUSTON TEXAS
    Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]?

    Your statement "POSSIBLY BECOMING" watch the way you talk ...May be...could be...might be so...going back to reality Landon Donovan and the USA team just dismember Portugal and Mexico with the dreaded FIGO ! so lets get this clear " WHEN ADU DO THE SAME" THEN WE TALK
     
  6. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]?

    ok, let's not get crazy. LANDON DONOVAN and the USA team didn't dismember Portugal ....... The USA team did. let's not make it sound like Landon was responsible for that win. DMB, mcBride and O'Brien were much better than him in that game, by far.
     
  7. Treetaliano

    Treetaliano Member

    Jun 29, 2002
    San Diego
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]?

    McBride I'll give you. JOB and DMB didnt have the effect that LD did

    LD was terrorizing Couto, J. Costa and Petit until he was subbed out, which opened up space for McBride.

    thats old news anyways...time for LD to sac up and get back to Europe
     
  8. Greddy

    Greddy Member

    Jun 24, 2003
    Chicago
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think when people say that Freddy Adu could be Americas first soccer superstar, they mean that freddy could be the first american soccer player that MOST of america will give a **** about. Landon is a great player, but if I where to walk around downtown chicago and ask people if they have heard of him, i'm guessing 19 out of 20 would have no idea who he is. That says nothing of his talent, but it does tell me that he is NOT a superstar.
     
  9. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    I did put an [r] in the title didn't I?

    how about this. Anything Freddy can do, Landon can do better. If I remember correctly Landon won the golden boot at the U-17s and led his team to a 4th place finish right?

    But I didn't start this thread to blast on Freddy, who's game I love to watch, and could possibly exceed that of Landon's.

    You people who point out that Landon's isn't a superstar by definition is absolutly correct. But thats why I say "unacknowledged superstar". He has superstar talent, but not superstar exposure. IMHO I think thats a result of Nike, Gatorade, and MLS not doing nearly enough to promote him. Just take a look at Mia Hamm. She got commercials of Mike vs Mia. Actually kind of wish that Landon would just step up and take the spotlight. Just tell America, I'm Landon Donovan and I'm going to make soccer popular in America, I'm going to bring the World Cup home.
     
  10. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Thanks for seeing what I meant. Its exactly like what you said, we get so worked up about everything else, that we forget about what we have sometimes.


    BTW - I actually kinda hope that Boca wins the award :)
     
  11. Parmigiano

    Parmigiano Member

    Jun 20, 2003
    Landon's so talented. I hope he leads San Jose to the title and proves his mettle yet again.

    But until he goes to Europe and shows weekly that he's even with the world's best, he won't be considered a world class talent.

    And that's only fair. He's young. He's showing his stuff. I, for one, am a huge fan. But if he or anyone else wants to call him a world-class star, it's still too early. He's got to prove it at the highest level, week in, week out.
     
  12. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    why does he have to prove it?
     
  13. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, he won the golden ball - which is Most Valuable Player in the tournament, which in my opinion is better than the golden boot. Being MVP means you were the BEST player at the tournament (not just the top goal scorer) - BEST player.
     
  14. StillKickin

    StillKickin Member+

    Dec 17, 2002
    Texas
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You might want to ask his coach, Frank Yallop, if it's too early to call him that. He's just one you might want to question.

    Also, what does LD have to prove any more than Adu has to prove? Adu has been labeled superstar already, and has yet to play one minute of professional football. Why not hold him to the same standard as LD? Maybe I'll wait for Adu to score in a world cup. (And mind you, I like Adu, but he's still an unproven kid.)

    Once again, why can't people appreciate what we've got now and just look forward to the future, as it can only get better. Donovan does deserve more respect, and for the life of me I can't figure out why he doesn't get it.
     
  15. Parmigiano

    Parmigiano Member

    Jun 20, 2003
    Landon's a fine player, thank God we have him. He has all my respect and admiration, even if he stays in MLS all his life.

    But if he does, he will never be able to truly measure himself against the world's best. Why is that so hard to understand?

    I hate to have to make American sports analogies, but if a baseball player played AAA all his life, batted 360 with 40/50 homeruns a year for his career, would we put him in the same group as Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa? No we wouldn't, even if he could have possibly belonged with them, simply because he spent his life competing at a lower level.

    We know Landon is a very good player, our best. He is young and he can be even better, at least that is what we fervently hope. His potential to be a world-class player is why many of his fans want to see how he stacks up playing against the best in the world.

    Three or four games in the World Cup every four years is not going to tell the story. Nor is playing the rest of his days in MLS.

    Only by competing in one of the top leagues of the world will Landon, and his fans, know just how good he can really be.

    Of course, there's always the chance that he leads us to the WC final while staying in MLS. But even then, there would always remain a question mark over his career -- that is, what more could he have accomplished if he'd always played at the highest level.
     
  16. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]?

    I understand what your saying, I ask why is it neccasary? I to want Landon to goto Europe. For selfish reasons only though. I want to be able to say that one of our American's punked everybody in Europe. but you know what? It doesn't matter. Just because he plays in MLS for his entire career(which I don't think he will) it doesn't make him a worse player or a less talented player. We know were getting an amazing player for our national team every time he puts on the jersey and thats what really matters to me.
     
  17. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well if that's the case, then who cares? The game isn't about who has the biggest reputation and so forth. It's about winning soccer games.

    When the World Cup comes calling, then Donovan can take a crack at the world's best. When he did this at the age of 20, he certainly looked like he belonged out there with them. Why do we care what his reputation is amongst various people?

    All of this talk, of course, ignores the basic problem that Landon is not in control of where he plays. Landon's choices right now are play for the Quakes or play for Leverkusen's reserves indefinitely. I don't see why the Quakes are such a bad choice under such circumstances.
     
  18. Parmigiano

    Parmigiano Member

    Jun 20, 2003
    voros, i don't give fvck about reputation. I could care less. What I want to see is Landon Donovan playing week in, week out against the best players in the world, not once every four years (if he's lucky).

    I want to see how he reacts to a Serie A defense, how he handles the skill of Real Madrid, how he handles the pace of the EPL. I want to see how he stacks up playing all the time against the very best.

    This has nothing to do with reputation. It has everything to do with the pleasure of watching great football and seeing how the best American player can handle the highest level, all the time, every season, every week.

    I can appreciate why some would want to keep Landon in MLS. But watching him take apart Rusty Pearce or Danny Califf is just not as tantalizing for me, and doesn't tell me as much about his talent, than if he could do the same thing CONSISTENTLY to Rio Ferdinand or Alessandro Nesta.

    Can he? We just don't know, because he's never really had that chance. But wouldn't you like to find out?
     
  19. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not really because I'd never get to see him play in those games.

    But it's academic because he doesn't currently have those opportunities.

    And watching Donovan's second goal last night was plenty pleasureable even though it was only the Wizards defense he schooled. (The play went Donovan to Roner back to Donovan to DeRosario to Donovan, goal). Brilliant stuff.

    While I might concede that it's better for his game and our national team to play in a top league, don't ask me to be thrilled about getting those kind of plays taken away from me. I'll accept it as a necessary evil, but it won't make me particularly happy.
     
  20. Parmigiano

    Parmigiano Member

    Jun 20, 2003
    Well, I don't know about you, but where I live I can go to a sports bar and watch just about any European soccer game of interest. So watching isn't really a problem.

    As for his second goal, yes, saw it, it was nice, but left me with that feeling, yet again, that he would never have gotten away with that in a top league.

    I saw all three of his goals and the Wiz defense was utterly pathetic, just like Cuba, Venezuela and others that Landon has schooled.

    When Landon can school AC Milan or Man U's back four, or score the next time he faces Germany in the knockout round of a WC, then I'll know he's truly arrived.

    Until then, he's playing minor league ball, IMO.
     
  21. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, this minor league is the only league I care about, and no, I can't watch any European game of interest where I live.

    Here's a point to ponder from someone in KC:

    "Took my family to the game last night and was quite impressed with Landon even outside of his play on the field.

    It was Break the Record night here in KC and the Wizards put some effort through free tickets and reaching out to local youth teams.

    A few teams were allowed to go onto the field prior to the game and form a tunnel for the players to enter through. The Wizards and Quakes would high five the kids as they came out of the tunnel and onto the field. As you can imagine, the kids were 3 or more kids deep in these lines and only half the players on either team were actually high fiving as they mainly stuck to the middle of this human tunnel. The right side line was being totally missed by players. Landon noticed this and went to the otherside and get half the line. He was the only player to do this.

    After the game Landon had an autograph session with 200 of these youth players. Teams were instructed to meet in this one section. After standing around for 45 minutes, the families were herded around arrowhead like cattle until we hit an exit where they had a table set-up on the otherside with Landon. You had the opportunity to take a picture and get something signed. After another 20 minutes, I finally got to the gate and wanted to bring my three kids through have them pose behind Landon after he autographed there goal cards (which I thought was cool after his hat-trick). Well the stadium staff did not understand this concept. He took the time as my three kids made went up and posed for a picture after the autograph. During one of my daughters picture he yawned. He apologized for it and my wife said no problem. He then insisted on taking another picture and sat there with my daughter for another picture.

    Quake fans you have a great player and person enjoy him."

    Europe can have everybody else: Beasley, Mathis, Bocanegra, Howard, Convey, even Freddy after a year or two. All of them appear to want to go to Europe and play there. Landon _wants_ to stay here and build the sport in this country with his bare hands. He _wants_ to do for boys who play soccer what Mia Hamm's done for girls who play soccer. Landon _wants_ to be the face of this league; the face associated with soccer turning the corner in the United States.

    Maybe there's a kid who went to the game and got Landon's autograph (maybe got his picture taken too). Maybe the kid will tell everyone who sees the picture that Landon scored a hat trick that night. Maybe after meeting and talking to Landon for a few minutes, the kid goes crazy nuts over soccer and begins to play the sport whenever he gets any free chance. If and when one of these kids in Kansas City last night becomes our next future star, let's have a little recollection on how and why it happened.

    Landon wants to do this for soccer in this country. Let's not be too hard on him for it.
     
  22. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    Re: Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]?

    is that more important than MLS following WUSA down the toilet?. Be careful what you wish for- it might come true.
     
  23. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man, there are some great posts on here, and i have a mixed bag of emotions on all the comments, but i truly feel that LD has to continue to prove himself, as does everyone in every sport. that IS the nature of sports ......... proving your mettle time and time again. The problem that I have is I still feel that he doesn't get it done consistently enough in MLS to label him a superstar. as Parmigiano said earlier, 3 or 4 games in the WC every 4 years does not a superstar make. As for the Adu comments (which came out of NOWHERE before), lets understand that any competition and award is granted based upon teams success. LD was GREAT at the u-17, but if the team hadn't been good enough to take 3rd (actually they were the best team), he wouldn't have gotten that nod. if you look at that u-17 squad, there are quite a number of players from that squad who are solid contributing professionals for their clubs right now, OR latched on with clubs overseas. let's see where the Jamie Watsons of the world who surrounded Freddy are in another 4 years and see ultimately if his supporting cast gave as much support as LD's. I hope Adu is better, but not because i don't love LD's game (i do), but because a better player than LD means that the UNITED STATES is getting better. Hell, i hope that there is a guy better than freddy who comes up 2 years from now!!! Rack me!!! LOL
     
  24. donovan9

    donovan9 New Member

    Nov 19, 1999
    South of Santa Rosa
    Re: Re: Weren't we arguing about Donovan's productivity in MLS[r]?


    Good post :)
     
  25. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. Also, worthy reputations are made and last over a long time span. Seems to me that one other player of some repute, Pele, did OK for himself while never playing league ball outside Brazil until he "retired" to the Cosmos. If LD keeps scoring in the World Cup, his rep will be assured regardless of the personal desires of those that want him to "prove himself" in games broadcast by Fox Sports World from Europe.
     

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