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Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by NorthBank, Apr 18, 2008.
Have you timed one?
No. But i'll take Val's word for it. If you don't believe him, find out for yourself.
I don't believe what Val was told. His own study was based on one game. I don't care enough to sit down and time it, but losing one-third of the game to the ball being stopped just sounds extreme. I don't see how it is possible.
30% dead time sounds plausible to me, depending on the match/ref of course.
I just randomly timed 2 corners by us in the 13th min of today's match. One came immediately after the other, and each used 30 seconds of dead time.
Wayne if you really still don't believe it, I suggest you take a stopwatch to one half and see what you get.
I happen to have the channel on a random Columbian match on GolTV right now. I'll time the next fifteen minutes and judge from there.
Look at the stats for todays game:
2 Free kicks on goal
11 Corner kicks
20 shots off target, most resulting in goal kick
9 yellow cards
The game stops for all of those, right?
I just clocked this Columbian game, and I don't know whether you are watching, but these teams can't put two passes together without kicking it out of bounds or fouling. It's ridiculous. Anyway, in fifteen minutes, the ball was stopped for three minutes and thirty seven seconds. That's about 23% of the time. It's not the most scientific sample, but it'll do. The rate is higher than I expected, but the game is scrappy. These were the averages that I found using this small smaple:
GK - 17 seconds
corners - 19 seconds
fouls (not shooting) - 11 seconds
fouls shooting (only one time) - 40 seconds
throw-ins - 12 seconds
Try sitting through that shit on a cold December evening at the stadium. It's a hell of a lot worse at the game than in the comfort of your heated living room.
I think someone once said that the actual time a ball is in play in an NFL game is only about 8 minutes.
yes plus throw-ins.
Just curious, but wouldn't the 20 shots off target stat overlap with the 11 corner kicks (not all, but many)? There seems to be some double counting there, although it doesn't really matter.
Edit: Just to be clear, I am just saying that b/c you said that some of them did not result in a goal kick.
I was just going to post that figure. That's about 13% of the game.
The corner that Berbatov won in the 90th minute or so, about a minute and a half ran off of that one. Granted, lots of Man Utd players taking their time, so that is a bit extreme. In addition to the stats Anti posted, there were three goals and five substitutions, each of which probably are closer to a minute of lost play each than half a minute.
I'd just rather the refs get the game right than get PKs like we got vs Celtic and lose PKs like we lost today.
Very concisely said Val! And exactly the point.
I was wondering if the EPL (or any other league) could implement video unilaterally or does it have to be designed & sanctioned by UEFA or FIFA?
I was also wondering if Blatter & FIFA actually like the prospect of another "hand of god" in the future?
Why do people always think Blatter is a a dictactor who decide on every rule of the game by himself. Do you guys don't know any decision proposed (whether by Blatter himself or others) have to go through many people other than Blatter and get most of their approval as well. If they want something to happen and Blatter is against it if enough people are for it, it will happen, and that include the FAs from the UK as well which seem to hold more power when it comes to Football rule decisions.
In reaction to the Henry handball which got France to the WC, Wenger said:
And I'll be damned if FIFA didn't go and let another one of god's hands pick-pocket somebody! And then they sit there and say "the referee's decision is final". Me & my buddy Arsene say "wake up FIFA, it's not 1986 any more"
5 refs are the future
Why stop at 5? 6 would be even better. But they still wouldn't be able to see incidents as well as the armchair fan at home.
Yeah, I agree with anti, 6 refs won't make it any better. I still think the simplest way to improve is to give all three refs on the field whistles and really empower the linesmen.
It's always seemed to me that the linesman are so scared of being criticized for allowing an offside goal that they raise their flag on anything close. If they had another official upstairs to waive off any illegal goals they could keep their flag down, which would open up the game.
You know what they say: "better a dodgy offside call than a dodgy goal."
Alas bigman 5 officials does seem to be the future. But that smacks a bit as if it's good labor-union strategy for increasing the # of salaried workers.
And even w/ 5 they're all still prone to frequent human fallibility and occasional unsighted situations... as Wenger so nicely articulated about the TH handball.
For my money, if you want to ensure the highest quality and lowest cost, it's video replay.
And to minimize flow disruption from video usage, I'd say don't give coaches the ability to stop the game for challenges. Just designate a 4th official to do video replays, instantly, as the game flows, talking wirelessly to the head ref.
Wouldn't you think that some footy league would have at least tried this out unofficially?
Sound pretty simple to me. they do already carry some device in their head to communicate with other officials, or is it just for show.
Really if "stopping the flow of the game" is the biggest concern, then just use VR at critical points, like an awarded penalty or a goal.
Penalty is awarded, theres at least 10 seconds before the ball is on the spot etc etc for it to be reviewed. So if someone dives and the VR determines that, he can tell the ref and it can be a goal kick from the keeper from the spot.
Same for goals. In the case of Henry, the VR sees Henry used his hand and Given would take a kick from that spot. Its not very difficult to make this work, so im shocked why its not being trialled.
10 seconds? More like 45 with the customary player complaints and crowding the ref and any sort of conversation with the linesman.
If the powers that be really care about the flow of the game, they'd give automatic bans anytime there are more than two players complaining to the ref.
Yeah, they should just do it and not tell anyone.
You mean kinda like they do in F1 these days.....
So... why not just let the score stand, unofficially....review every match, after the event, and then allow an appeal before a tribunal within two weeks.
And...perhaps we could also have the umpire throw a yellow hankie if he
thinks the player was offsides!!!!!!!!!
It would of course be picked up......after further review.
I'd just be happy if the refs didn't screw the pooch on a regular basis.
Are people really going to be that bothered by calls that aren't completely shit?