Wenger: EPL bigger than CL; Man Utd had easy draw in 99

United's Treble Run:

FA Cup 1999:
3rd rd: Manchester United 3 Middlesbrough 1
4th rd: Manchester United 2 Liverpool 1
5th rd: Manchester United 1 Fulham 0
6th rd: Man U 0 Chelsea 0 Replay: Chelsea 0 Man U 2
Semi: Man U 0 Arsenal 0 Replay: Arsenal 1 Man U 2
Final: Man U 2 Newcastle 0

United's games in Europe '99
2nd qualifying round: Man Utd 2 LKS Lodz 0; LKS Lodz 0 Man Utd 0
1st group stage: Man Utd 3 Barcelona 3, B Munich 2 Man Utdt 2; Brondby 2 Man Utd 6; Man Utd 5 Brondby 0; Barcelona 3 Man Utd 3; Man Utd 1 B Munich 1
Quarter-finals: Man Utd 2 Inter Milan 0; Inter 1 Man Utd 1
Semi-finals: Man Utd 1 Juventus 1; Juventus 2 Man Utd 3
Final: B Munich 1 Man Utd 2

 

'Nuff said. Shut up Wenger, accept the fact that your team cant hold it together. Accept the fact that our defense held firm without one of the most key players in the team against you, TWICE.

 

Just back from vacation, so I have a bit of time to chime in on Henry's comments about the fixture congestion and the whole "we are not machines" riff he was on.

He and Wenger both have been on about this, but surely fatigue and whatnot couldn't be blamed for the 2 losses going in to the first two fixtures? If it were the second two fixtures, it would at least make some sense.

We had 4 sublime strikers for our Treble run, and you need that and a deep interchangeable midfield to get through this end of season run, and also have a manager that will rotate the squad earlier in the year to keep legs fresh.

 

This ties in to what I was saying before in another thread, you will never hear wenger say that his team were outplayed, he is either b!tching about the refs, the schedule or injuries... he is so stupid sometimes I can't stand it... We who have been forced to play at one time 2 non defenders in defence for 2 games have still managed to hold it together... All the man does is whine... Who the hell have Arsenal played? They played us without our best defender and best striker they lose, and they still whine and complain... this is classic... vintage Skinner, I mean, Whenger.

 

Bingo!

Thats is one of Arsenes biggest shortcomings.. He is incapable of cultivating the depth in his own squad.

If wenger does not have clearly superior player he will not play him. Why didn't players like Pennant stay at home and get integrated into the squad more?

Why don't players like Alladiere get more of a chance to show what they can do?

Why is Wenger chasing Anti Niemi when he has a damn fine keeper in Stuart Taylor?

This is a strong team he needs to a better job managing them.

 

I know there are those out there who say that this quote of Wenger's sounds a lot like stuff that has come out of Sir Alex's mouth, i.e. his comments about Arsenal coming apart after the FA match. However, it is completely different. Alex likes the mind games and his opinion was dead on. Wenger is constantly making excuses for his club. We all know that he is trying to denigrate our achievments and highlight his own. I can't see how by any stretch of the imagination that winning one league championship is more difficult then winning the Trebel in ANY year.

 

I don't think he is making excuses.

He is that delusional.

 

The man is a twit.

 

I wouldn't say that but he definately has his shortcomings.

 

The 99 team was awesome. But come on folks. Any team winning the treble is a fluke. Hell, you're really the only team from a competitive league to ever win it.

Madrid hasn't, Milan hasn't, Bayern hasn't.

Celtic, Ajax, and PSV are the only other teams to win the treble. At least one of them wins their league double annually it seems.

The treble is still luck, I've said that in many forums, will continue to do so. And it was now 5 years ago. Lets all go to the PSV forum and talk about the wonder years of 87, 88

 

No, my friend your information has only outlined how great our 99 team was, perhaps one of the strongest and most dominant in this generation. The reason no other teams from competitive teams win it is because its very hard to juggle having to play in 3 competitions at once and the hardest one to win is the CL so great teams with a chance to win that tournament sometimes suffer in their leagues - and in competitive leagues they get swallowed up. ManU however had a very strong midfield and young midfield that could run for days without rest. We had 4 quality strikers and we almost had to flip a coin to see who started. SAF did an excellent job of rotating the squad to make sure guys got their rest.

Winning any competition takes a little luck, you might get a favorable call, score an amazing goal, or have an opponent miss... that is football - stop whining and live with it. You cannot say that winning the trebble is a fluke, you might say that winning 1 cup is a fluke however to win 3 means that you beat all comers thats not luck - that is dominance. What you could say is that when Ajax, Celtic or PSV won the trebble that they had it easier than others because they did not face tough competition in the league and the league cup, however, credit them for beating others still and recognize that either or 99 triumph was nothing short of miraculous and most excellent or that Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle and the rest of the Prem is utter sh!t and on the same level as the Dundee's and Patrick's of Scotland or the RBC Roosendaal and Feyenord of the Dutch league and so on and so forth... gosh, you have been stricken with Wenger's disease too! ie. we did not win so either they cheated, we were all injured or it was not worth fighting for, ie... FA Cup is not important, CL is not hard to win... I mean damn - whine, whine, whine.

 

Good post. Pretty much sums it up. Not to mention in '99 there were a number of true powerhouse clubs in Europe at their very best form, which has not happened for the past 2 seasons. You do not beat that caliber of opponent by luck. You do it by sheer class.

 

Following this logic, France saved America from the Nazis in World War II.

 

Find the complement, geez . . .

the 99 team was great, but there was a bit of (deserved) luck at the end of the final though

plus do, you think the 99 team was better than any team Madrid has fielded?
yet they never won it.

I will say that ManU basically invented "the treble" as the achievement supreme in europe, since the league cup in Spain and Italy were largely insignificant in previous years.

It was a great team, but still a fluke (meaning better teams have not won it)

France didn't save us?

 

vos raisins sont aigres mon ami

 

What a load of crap.

Taking Billyho's point to its logical extension, winning any knock-out competition is relatively meaningless, because it involves an amount of flukiness.

The Superbowl, the NCAA basketball championships, the FA Cup, the World Series - all meaningless and flukie.

They are meaningful though - they may not mean you absolutely, definitively have the best team - but they do mean you beat everyone else.

But what if you managed to win two such competitions and the regular season? That takes an incredible amount of talent, will power, and dominance. That's ********ing awesome.

 

Hmmm.

Fact 1. Arsenal have just been knocked out of two cup competitions.

Fact 2. An Arsenal supporter claims that anyone who wins cup competitions is just lucky.

Dammit, there is a connection between these two and I just can't put my finger on it

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.......



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH


HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH.... dammit that felt good... thats exactly what i was trying to say ealier, Arsenal is the king of sour grapes... they lose so the competition is worthless... people dont seem to understand, having more talent, ala madrid - does not make you the best team... far from it actually, talk to the Dutch Mens National Team. Being managed properly, showing up for big games, playing with heart and passion but most of all, team work wins games - thats why some so called small teams can often beat better teams, who have a new coach, are missing one key player or something like that, the smaller team has the chemistry and that other team might be a little out of whack and that turns the game. I will seriously enjoy doing the double next year and the trebble the year after - regardless of the luck and complete lack of skill it will demonstrate... hah, hahahahahah

 

Fluke-smook. Wengers a cont!

 

My god you people are hard to please. I said you had a great team.

Does it not strike any of you odd that no Italian or Spanish team has ever won it?

The comparision to the NCAA tournament is a good example of what I was getting at. The best team doesn't usually win it. And I would think that if you asked Jim Calhoun right now if winning 2 such tournaments in the same year were as much good fortune as talent, he'd say yes.

I never said winning a cup was JUST luck (why am I arguing with you people about this???????)

 

Its the manner in which things are said... you must face things as they are... no sooner than yall get kicked out of 2 competitions you and your manager talk about the team being lucky... well like we said, there is a certain element of luck in every game played so to point out that the 99 season involved luck is pointless unless you are trying to diminish the accomplishment.. its like saying to an artist that is not a perfect circle (if hand drawn). Well duh, its not possible, (in other words, to win 3 competitions without 1 favorable call by the ref, or a few balls off of your keeper's uprights or an injury to a key player on another team) mentioning that there was luck/not a perfect circle is obvious and is taken as a detractor of the achievment.

 

Like MtK says, its the timing. Off course it is true that cup competitions have more of an element of luck than a season long competition - as fortune tends to even out over a season. But Wenger pointing this out just when you go out of two cup competitions is sour grapes. When you won the FA Cup twice he was full of praise for what a great competition it is.

Also, bear in mind that we won the CL when it had two league stages. This year it only has one.

Also, you make your own luck. In many games that season we scored in the last few minutes. There was a never say die attitude I have yet to see from Henry & Vieira who go hide in big games.

Arsene Wenger is going down in my estimation. To add to his 'I didn't see that' and his sour grapes we now have the 'XXX player is out for the next three weeks' before he subsequently plays in the next game.

All that 'best team of the last thirty years stuff' we were hearing makes me laugh

On the plus side, whoever wins the prem deserves to be called the best team in the country. That is Arsenal this year. Vieira and Henry have been the two best players.