Welcome Ivan Jurić

Discussion in 'AS Roma' started by whill4, Sep 19, 2024.

  1. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    AS Roma
    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The big downside of a new coach is that it likely means the same bad actors are going to continue to start, at least in the beginning. A new coach isn’t going to come in and immediately challenge the senators, otherwise they will be run out quicker than Juric. And if DDR comes back that means Pellegrini, Cristante, Paredes and Mancini are going to be permanently in the starting 11 as well.
     
  2. decola

    decola Member+

    Sep 12, 2006
    Club:
    AS Roma
    It's really tough to know what the right path is for this team...

    It's either a 'back to basics' approach where we focus on defending or going for a more attacking style. The funny thing is the defense isn't bad this year and they haven't conceded many goals in the scheme of things, so what benefit would the 'back to basics' approach really bring?

    The problem is the team just can't seem to score and be ruthless enough to win games.

    It was the same problem under DDR after the Leverkusen games, Mourinho was sacked because of this problem, Juric is suffering the same fate now. However, I don't know if you bring an attacking manager like Sarri for example that the team would get over this issue of ruthlessness in the long run.

    I'm as sick of watching Cristante, Pellegini etc as everyone here, but I've seen all of them perform in spells for certain coaches and in certain contexts (Europe in particular). They clearly have it in them but there is a particular problem in mentality at the club--I worry that no one upstairs knows how to fix this...

    It's tough, I wouldn't even know which direction to take it in with Juric. On the one hand I question his selections at times, but I look at a performance like yesterday and I wonder, is that really Juric's fault?

    It's like there's something missing, something we can't see from the outside...
     
  3. iGiallorossi

    iGiallorossi Member+

    Oct 4, 2010
    N.Ireland
    Club:
    AS Roma
    The three senators need to go, same problems different manager, the cycle continues.
     
  4. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    #29 La Magica, Oct 29, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2024
    If Jose had of stayed Pellegrini was gone this summer. 100% He had him figured out and was finding himself on the bench after waiting on him for 18 months. Insert Le Fee and Kone into Joses options and the biggest issue with his play starts to have a chance to be resolved. People might not want to admit it but time is proving his sacking to be wrong now..So what if was so boring football, stuttering results. Look what he was working with in centre midfield. Slow and steady wins the race and what he built which so many were quick to dismiss was sad to see. The foundations had been laid through discipline and hard work. They had identify, they fought hard and hung in games, were able to score late game changing goals regularly in a way we had never seen before. Centre midfield is the source, Ive been saying it for years. Jose didnt improve it here but then he wasnt given the players to do so. Le Fee and Kone are both dynamic and have the big game mentality of demanding the ball and then having the ability to do something with it. You have Cristante, all heart and no brain, and Pellegrini all brain and no heart. What you have is essentially 2 useless footballers on the pitch.

    DDR didnt bring anything better, there was no new tactical revolution which some were raving about after a handful of games against weaker teams. It was the new manager bounce and a loosening of the reins away from the strict style of Jose. That was my initial instinct of what was going on inside the dressing room and over time we seen that play out. So while DDR brought nothing new and by the end we still didnt know what he really wanted on the pitch, he was a young manager who should have been allowed the time to grow. Pellergini with him, again I do believe his time was coming close to being up and DDR would have limited his playing time with the options now in the club. Bringing DDR should decrease his playing time.

    Mancini not running back to do basic defending, should be sold in Jan. Simple, no ifs or buts after that.

    These people dont understand football and with Jurics very specific way of playing, its another system that could take 2-3 years to implement with a squad were half the players are maybe not his ideal players. Its madness to have him here and expect results instantly but guys like lucky sperm, it would be like an reactionary on this forum calling the shots ffs and its been documented he wanted Jose fired 6 months previously but Dan stepped in. No a clue about football but him and a DEI CEO was left in charge with no football figure in the office. Hard to believe it all got this ridiculous.

    The way forward for this club is simple. It is going back to Joses principles thats installed in the club. Simple hard working football that gives a few key players the chance to shine such as Dybala. You see a player like him is a shadow under a guy like Juric because hes reduced to a cog in a machine. Theres other ways of playing football lads, its doesnt need to be this obsession with in vogue possession based system managers. Football is making a change away from them as the be all and end all of tactics and that will be good for the games diversity. Dybala and vice baldanzi need the team built around them and then you let the genius out as they play the game as they see it unfold in front of them in the moment. Its very clear to me this is whats wrong with football today. These are the magic moments that make people fall in love with the game in the first place and we dont see them often enough anymore because the players are not allowed to really express themselves. DDR back with Ranieri keeping him right. simple 4-2-3-1. The best players fit into this system while not burning a 30 million signing. Ranieri's principles are like Joses. This is the path to redeeming the season with some dignity.
     
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  5. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    What I understand is happening is Juric is being given one more game while they finalise certain stipulations DDR has demanded before coming back. The decision has already been made and its one step in the right direction for them to attempt to correct the mess they have made. It will take a long time if its even possible to win the fans over again though.

    DDR would not have been back if the CEO was still here. That is what he meant when he said this time I wont be back. But with her gone, its a new situation. He has requested Ranieri be put in charge as the footballing executive in the head office. This is a vital role that had Dan have sorted out, we would have never seen her with no clue about Roma, how football works, how firing a legend like DDR would go down after 3 games in, make such a ridiculous decision. She comes from the business world, contracts and excel spread sheets were everything works logically so after big money and 3 games it was enough for her to react. Someone given this role will smooth the gap between the sporting director, coach and the strict business side and stop this madness from happening again. Its just head scratching how these "basics" were not in place beforehand and Roma had to again become a laughing stock. Maybe the silver lining out of this is the learning process and the right structure is now set in stone in head office.
     
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  6. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    AS Roma
    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Allegedly Tuchel offered himself to Roma, but they went with Juric instead. Find that hard to believe, but may be they couldn’t afford both his and De Rossi’s salaries together.
     
  7. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Tuchel probably doesn't speak Italian which is very important.
     
  8. ErPupone

    ErPupone Member+

    Aug 27, 2015
    Austria
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Mourinho-ball was shitting your pants against big sides before the game even started and then losing 0:1 without a shot on goal. Let's not be revisionist about his stint, his time was up. Zero development with him in 2,5 seasons. If you like losing derbies and keep finishing 6th he's the right choice, yeah. DDR showed what the squad was capable of within a few weeks. The fact that he started losing games with a packed schedule at the end of the season and messed up this season's start (after a mercato with many new additions but still big holes in the squad) doesn't mean that Mourinho would've been the right choice. The right choice would've been to either back DDR till the end of this season or not extend his contract in June and go with a guy like Palladino or an experienced coach instead.
     
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  9. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma


    You cant accuse me of revisionist and then follow up with explaining away DDR's following few months as just a packed schedule. In the bigger picture looking back Jose would have finished more or less in the same position come end of season. Sure results were not good against big sides with Jose, I expected more but then Roma lacked character in certain key places to carry the side on the pitch in the big moments. He had to find a way to get more out of them but he was searching for something by the end where he was dropping Pellegrini. Character is what it comes down to in the end. The squad I believe has more of that now, it just needs used properly.

    Im not saying it was all rosy, never did but when you weigh up the whole lot, things I mentioned above, the good outweighs the bad. Remember one personal bias decision away from history and back to back European titles. The money and potential to buy the right player he wanted should not be forgotten about. I would also question this belief in you need to sack every manager after a sustained period of ups and downs. It gets us nowhere anyway and we see it time after time, hoping the next guy will be better when in reality a good manager might need a minimum of 3-5 years to fully start to build something impressive. Certain managers need fired yes but when you have a proven winner and at a club like Roma, it should be considered carefully. You look at what has went on since and the good work has been ripped apart. It does take an owner with an understanding of the time it takes for teambuilding to happen. Yes I would take these years of frustrating loses and stuttering ups and downs knowing the club would come out of it for the better. Sticking through it which is never done would have been the best thing for this club in the long term. Why?

    20 years following this club, seeing the culture of playing nice but being happy losers, it was imbedded here and thats what really takes years to turn around. If we look at the overall story of Jose, we can say the defining moment was not getting that pen. It would have left the timeline of his progress right on track. 3rd year Cl football. So in the micro/macro he wasnt far away.

    Regards DDR, well the strategy I assumed they would take in the summer was fill the squad with young hungry cheap players and allow a young manger with such a connection to the club to build something remarkable. I was shocked they were going after big transfers, they made good signings but still not convinced it was the right approach.

    DDR as a novice was going to be full of mistakes. Im sure we all would have been ok for him to be learning on the job and given time. Guarantee him 5 years no matter the results, go and work, put your ideas in place and build something. We needed the people above we see this personal side to the football business, theres no perfect linear progress in football. Hopefully 2nd time round this happens. Juric, well its unfortunate, he deserves his shot but is a victim of timing. I dont see his future here.
     
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  10. Madridisma

    Madridisma New Member

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Oct 4, 2024
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Why be so negative about Mr Ranieri? Give him another chance to prove his worth. @Madridisma
     
  11. ErPupone

    ErPupone Member+

    Aug 27, 2015
    Austria
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Jose's PPG average that season would've seen us finish 8th. No matter if you take it after the Milan game or after 19 rounds. And that was the easier half of the season. Make no mistake, Jose's third season was as bad as it gets. You yourself agreed that this was the season where he had to make it count. Our performance against Inter was nothing but embarassing. That game is all you need to know about the "mentality" that was instilled. Other games against bigger sides weren't much better.
    The proven winner's currently on his way to make a 99p per season team perform worse after a transfer market that actually improved the squad. If he needs an all star XI for his football to work he's just not the right guy for clubs like Roma. If Jose got the same mercato DDR got we'd still play shite and Dovbyk's worth would plummet to 10m by the end of the season.
    We've had 2,5 years of it and the club didn't come out of it better and there were no signs that it would do in the future. You gotta hit the brake at some point.

    I'm not even saying that continuing with DDR was the perfect choice (just that axing him after a few games was the dumbest) but not continuing with Mourinho definitely was. But I guess we'll never agree on this one
     
  12. decola

    decola Member+

    Sep 12, 2006
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Also I doubt we would've bought players like Baldanzi, Angelino, Le Fee if Mou stayed
     
  13. azzurri06

    azzurri06 Member

    Apr 4, 2007
    san francisco
    Has anyone ever seen Juric and Robert De Niro in the same room?
     
  14. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    We won't agree on this. We look at the trophy cabinet here and you look at Jose's. You stick with a guy like that and there's a good chance he eventually gets it right and things swing. Its something i would like to see more off in football today, owners having more patience because we see it time and time again, the grass being greener never really lasts. I don't believe this sky sports narrative as it was them who first pushed it, thats Jose's tactics are outdated. We can see the issues with Ange and Ten Hagg who were hailed as geniuses. These clubs all had bigger problems going on in the background. That his tactics are outdated, it's a silly lazy assumption when you break it down. Counter attack will always be a thing and there's nothing wrong with being smart and spoiling a game, picking your moments. Football is about diversity of tactics. But we also had games with a functioning high intensity, high pressing game. The issues was it wasn't consistent enough, a mix of Joses stubborness, sometimes he needed to let the leash off the players but also very much a player character problem. His football needs strong minded players to step up and lead. Kone is that guy and very much a Jose type player because while the squad is light in places I always said theres quality and with the one right signing its amazing how that can inspire a team to go a level or 2 higher. This is why I held so much belief the team was close had they sorted out midfield. Adding to my gripe, he had finally benched the problem even if there wasn't a replacement. It had to be done to highlight the issue.

    This isn't a spur of the moment point I'm raising. I said when he was fired I think its a wrong decision but time will tell us. Considering what's went on in a few months since, I think we can see he also was dealing with a lot more behind the scenes than we understood.

    PPG averages can improve. Half a season ppg is an estimate of how you will do but no guarantee. You can agree they axed him at that time as it suited DDR to get off to a good start. Sacking him then will always have made it look worse coming out of that tough stretch.

    Regards making fenerbache worse. Well that's not really a fair argument to lead with when they had a freakishly good season last year. Who can maintain 100 point seasons. As things stand they are 3rd and I think it's only been a couple late draws from winning positions that has taken points from them.
     
  15. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    AS Roma
    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mou getting fired was the right decision regardless of where the team is at today. DDR had the team playing better in his first month than Mou did in 2.5 years. He’s past it as a manager, I’m already seeing Fenerbahce fans turning on him and wanting him gone.

    Anyone wanting to watch more Mourinho-ball with how ugly and ineffective it was is insane lol
     
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  16. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I Friedkin hanno deciso per l’esonero di Juric.

    L’annuncio potrebbe arrivare già domani.
    Pronto un nome di alto profilo che possa scuotere l’ambiente. Un ritorno di De Rossi invece non verrà preso in considerazione.

    SkySport


    [​IMG]
     
  17. Henchag

    Henchag Member+

    Aug 26, 2009
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    I don't know whose going to come in now, but whoever comes in I don't expect to qualify to CL. So whoever comes in I won't see as failure whatever he does, because the expectation bar has been set so low.
     
  18. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    AS Roma
    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Serie A won’t be ready for Bruce Arena
     
  19. ErPupone

    ErPupone Member+

    Aug 27, 2015
    Austria
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Yeah the season is over already. I don't think things will improve with Juric but it only makes sense to replace him if you have a proper name available. And if that's the case you gotta ask why they didn't go for that person im September.
     
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  20. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Your point means nothing when the good football lasted for a handful of games in an easy stretch. I accepted DDR coming in and I stand by he should never have been sacked but his ideas were confused, we didnt know what he really wanted to do and thats not surprising given he is so inexperienced. The only people who messed up this season are the owners and management. I knew the season was done after a few games. This situation they have created on a whim will likely be the end of them if they have decided not to bring DDR back.
     
  21. eric_appleby

    eric_appleby Member+

    Jun 11, 1999
    Down East
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A major part of Mourinho's firing was the drama with the referees. Seems like he spent more time in the stands than the sideline. He created a vendetta with them.
    Getting rid of Juric just to do something isn't the right move now. It creates more confusion and chaos. The CL ship sailed in September. Focus on tightening the defense and continue developing the young players.
     
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  22. iGiallorossi

    iGiallorossi Member+

    Oct 4, 2010
    N.Ireland
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Juric should've never have been put in this situation, I feel bad for him because mostly I don't think it's his fault. If we are to move on from this crisis he has to go.

    The players have not bought into him, his football isn't suited to this team, and it isn't a leap to think some players have actively tried to sabotage him. DDR coming back has been hanging over Juric like the guillotine waiting to drop since he took up the reigns.

    DDR isn't the man to solve this imo and I'd rather not give these players what they want. There's far too many player's in this team with weak mentalities and they can't be placated anymore. I want someone to come in that will break them.
     
  23. Indian_Gladiator

    Sep 4, 2014
    Kolkata
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Am i the only one who wants Juric to stay until the end of the season?
     
  24. decola

    decola Member+

    Sep 12, 2006
    Club:
    AS Roma
    I do think Juric is suffering the same problem as DDR and Mourinho, where he is completely on his own and not supported by the club (apart from a small effort by Ghisolfi for a couple matches... which seems to have disappeared).

    I look at the performance yesterday and you have squad pulling in two directiong with a handful of players who understand the situation and are playing like they give a damn (Kone, Le Fee, Ndicka, Svilar, Dovbyk etc) and another bunch of players who are going through the motions (usual suspects).

    I could see the frustration coming out for players like Kone and Dovbyk yesterday, who are doing everything right but are being let down by their teammates.

    Juric has been inflexible in his approach and his selections/subs have been questionable at times but I don't really know what he can do... yesterday when the game is at 2-2 the team was in the ascendancy and I thought they would come away with something but you get the usual suspects coming on who suck all the energy out of the team. Pellegrini was having a stinker, totally invisible and acting like a passenger but he survives the whole match.

    I'm not going to blame Dybala but I notice he came on for Soule, who was working really hard in the defence, and doesn't apply the same effort in tracking back, then the game starts to flip into a phase where Verona are hitting us on the counter which eventually punishes us. Classic Cristante/Paredes midfield as well where they have no pace, so every counter attack is a 3v3 or 2v3 against our centrebacks.

    All I can hope for is that Juric keeps Cristante, Paredes, Pellegrini etc on the bench and burns some bridges with these players so they finally ******** off away from the club and we can build on
    something with players who actually give a shit...

    Unless we suddenly go on a 10 game unbeaten run this season is a total write off, and we have European games which will soon come thick and fast to complicate everything more
     
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  25. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Lampards name being floated better be pure media speculation.
     

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