We need to talk about Vermes with poll

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by mschofield, Apr 13, 2023.

?

Peter Vermes should be

Poll closed Apr 27, 2023.
  1. left in full control of the club.

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  2. fired

    11 vote(s)
    64.7%
  3. left in control, but urged by managment to clean house

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%
  4. left in control but forced to clean house

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  5. removed from either his manager duties, or his soccer operations duties, but retained in the other

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%
  1. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Two legged" because we beat them so bad the 3rd wasn't needed.
     
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  2. Kooth

    Kooth Member

    Sporting KC
    Mar 11, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a nice article,
    https://kcsoccerjournal.com/10/30/2024/blame-ownership-not-vermes-for-sporting-kcs-failings/
    It is good to discuss budgets and investment in the team. But to blame the poor field performance on one or two players that PV did not get does not wash with me. From my perspective watching this team since 2007 PV has always had enough good to high MLS level players to coach. The reason why SKC has not made the playoffs for 2 of the las 3 seasons is because PV has not worked to improve those flaws that are clearly stated at the start of the article. He won MLS cup in his first four years and has now missed the playoffs twice in his last four years, that is not a positive trajectory.
     
  3. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Exactly correct Kooth. True. ownership didn't spend big money to bring in a couple stars he wanted. But he has certain flaws which make him bad at building a roster. Ownership not bringing in those players does not explain why his choices for U-22s were, at best, 1.5 for 3. They don't explain why he consistently overpays older players, meaning he doesn't have money or roster spots to bring in competetant younger players.
    It doesn't explain why we tie up $400,000 in our budget on a player nobody else in MLS was interested in, or the same amount again to re-sign an aging goalkeeper who would not have had any other options. He holds on to players for too long, and in holding on to them turns them into expensive players, which leaves us unable to compete for better mid-range players, leaving us thin.
    Most of all, we see again and again, across MLS, clubs with the exact same budgetary restrictions building better rosters.
     
  4. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Just as an example: Red Bull, who just eliminated a very good Columbus team on a bit of a roll coming into this series has 4 players earning above the Max or $750.
    SKC has 8.
    Now, they are hardly the club on which to base a build, but they do have a very clear point to the roster they assemble. Young and hungry, to play a "balls to the wall" pressing game, though this year, that's only most of the time.
    It is, however, the sort of system that can be very effective on a budget, as it requires youth and a willingness to work, more than skill. They add their four guys on bigger salaries to add the necessary skill, goal threat, and allow the system to make up for overall talent defensively. They make the playoffs most years, are not really an MLS Cup threat.
    They have an outlier wage for an attacker, Forsberg is their version of Pulido, though on much more money, $6m. Still, budget wise, these players both cost $750k.

    The difference: There is an absolute point to everyone on the RBNY roster. The SKC roster is just a bunch of (often good) soccer players.
     
  5. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    5 losses to start 2025. 10 straight losses. Haven't won a match since September 2024.
     
  6. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    He's gonna fire Burns, isn't he?
     
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  7. SportingKCFan

    SportingKCFan Member

    Sporting KC, KC Current
    Sep 2, 2010
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Everything is fine. PV is the best person to right the sinking ship (or more accurately the sunken shipwreck of this Club).

    The contrast on Saturday may not be more stark. Home opener at 11:45 am for the KC Current, buzzing atmosphere, league leading talent all over the field, well coached attacking soccer. Sporting may get spanked by MNUFC playing boring soccer in front of a less than capacity crowd that may turn surly. The ownership is criminally negligent is they do nothing if this continues.

    The only reason I go to Sporting games now is to take my grandchildren and spend some time with them. They are too young to notice the rot in the Club.
     
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  8. kcfooty

    kcfooty Member

    Feb 16, 2011
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I miss Robb trying.
     
  9. BenDover

    BenDover BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 4, 2010
    Rio Verde, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have been talking about this for years. PV should have been gone a couple of years ago (or really longer) when the rebuilding should have been taking place. When they showed PV during the DC game you could see the confusion on his face. He was frustrated because the game plan he thought up 10 or more years ago was still not working. So, obviously, it must be because the guys weren't hustling enough. So this week, he will have the same game plan and make sure the guys are hustling like never before. That will ensure that there is even more possession and back and forth passes to the touch lines. The middle of the offensive third will just become a place were the ball passes through and never stops. While all that great back and forth passing is going on, the forwards will make sure they stay in place outside the box because they don't want to make runs behind the defense where they would be in a position to receive a cross that never seems to be to anyone wearing an SKC kit. When SKC loses the next game, PV will proudly announce that he saw a lot of positives in their play and a lot of hustle, but will glumly express frustration with the defensive effort. But in the next game, you can expect SKC to really hustle.
     
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  10. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    After this DC match, Vermes noted "On the two goals that we gave up, I do know this. They both came from our right side. Getting out and stopping service, clearing the ball, those types of things, we have just got to do better with those plays."
    Oh, is that all? But two points: 1. Perhaps did having a kid who clearly had no idea how to play the position at a professional level have something to do with the fact that a mid was completely unmakred in the middle of the box had something to do with the second goal. I grant Fernandez a break, because he was touching Benteke, as someone had to be.The ball watching by the young kid, though, was a classic and predictable young kid mistake.
    2. It's nice that he's clearly setting up Davis as his scapegoat. I mean, it's amazing predictable now, Davis moves into the attack, as clearly stated in the PV pattern of play, and they bomb the vacated space and cause damage.
    Anyhoo, Our poll was 23 months ago, and i don't think anyone has moved away from the fire Vermes notion since.
     
  11. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Fire Vermes? Now? But we're this close to regionals!
     
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  12. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Specific to the "right side", its Shapi. Dude does't track his mark and its his mark that scores the second goal. He also conceeds the PK on a terrible forward's tackle. Now, the college CB looked lost the entire second half, and how that guy plays over Voloder is concerning, but he is calling out Shapi and maybe Davis a little.

    Again, have been saying this for a while now, but Davis is not a good RB. He was a nice find filling in for Zusi, but at the MLS level he needs to be playing the 8 instead of Bassong and they need to find another RB.

    Specific to PV.......anyone that has played an organized sport at the HS or club level or higher knows that a group of good players can figure it out withoug a coach. The only thing that impeeds progress of the group of guys is a regimented/dogmatic coach.

    This team is not good attacking with the wings. They have gotten almost no service to the CF and Joveljic is starved for service. They are generating no chances every game.

    Why not try Joveljic and Agada in a 4-4-2. Let them play off each other. Play four midfielders, with the two centeral being 6s to help the defense, which is still terrible.

    Last but not least, 5 games in and its clear that Pulskamp can't defend corner kicks. Going to be a long season unless he figures that out.
     
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  13. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Which is wild. For all his flaws and faults over the years, a lack of chances and/or shots really hasn't been in there. At least not since 2012 or so, when our attack was weak because our defense was so strong. But for the past 12 seasons or so, we've been at our worst an interesting attacking team. So this season, on top of the inexpert defense, it's just wild to see our chance creation dry up.

    I think this is gonna be a really long season. Well, not in the sense that we'll make the off-season, just in how frustrating and poor it's gonna be. I could be wrong, but I think we've all got a very fair read on this squad by now.
     
  14. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, the lack of chance creation is odd and not typical.

    I have been trying to figure out why, but really have no idea at this point. Both wingers are inverted and want to cut inside. That's not new, but Thommy is more one footed than most of our past wingers and Shapi seems to be equally one footed and also always want to cut inside. I don't know at this point, but I do know that after 5 games of this crap, I would have tried a different tactic.
     
  15. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I think Garcia will start to gain some chemistry and that will help.

    But honestly, back to the Johnny Russell thing. I think his involvement in chance creation and defense-threatening were a bit understated. He was always going to be tough to replace, and the team, erm, not really trying doesn't help this much.

    Ultimately, even if we just maintain this crop of players, we will see improvement. They'll start to figure each other out enough to stop all looking confused when one player or another has the ball. Ideally we would have gotten a head start on this in the pre-season, but the pre-season is for teams with a plan.
     
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  16. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Leading to the PK, it's gonna be Davis. He does a weak little lean in tackle attempt that is skipped by, leading to the pass, on which Shapi commits the foul.
    On the second goal, Shapi was back, but his marking was really loose, like three yards off the guy.
    That said, Miller is standing in the box, near no one, watching the ball. And Thommy is with Kilijma or whatever at the top of the circle, when he makes his run and Thommy, facing him, clearly thinks, well that can't be a problem, what can he possibly do with the ball 10 yards from goal
     
  17. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Aw. this is very true, and really sad.
     
  18. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Someone should set SKCs goals conceeded to a Bennie Hill theme song. It might actually be fun to watch.

    I'm telling you PV blames Shapi/Davis only on those goals. Don't think logically, think like Peter.
     
  19. BenDover

    BenDover BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 4, 2010
    Rio Verde, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This. PV has beaten all of the creativity out of his players and the results on the field show it. A good coach knows the talents of each of his players and puts them where they will be most successful.
    Sorry, but I have never been a Pulskamp guy. I know he is weak on corners, but he is also mediocre everywhere else. I don't have any data to back this up, but my guess is he is probably in the bottom 5 of league keepers. That doesn't bode well for him when the defense in front of him is also bottom of the league.
     
  20. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    To be fair, it's not on Pulskamp (and, yeah, gonna be a long time at least until summer), Vermes made the decision to ride or die with him.
    I mean, there really is not another option, is there?
    Miller was simply lost, as we'd expect out of a first blood for 19 or whatever year old CB.
    But Vermes made the very conscious decision that we would play a single pivot, while pusheing out outside back up field, and so exposing our CBs to situations where they take unnecessary cards. Pushing the outside backs only works when you totally and completely dominate the ball, like 65 percent and up to 85 percent. You can't be socred upon if they never have the ball, being the theory. We had 52 percent of the ball.
    It's all Vermes right now. His tactics are past their sell-by date. His motivation clearly is not working.
    He's a mess.
     
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  21. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    So, two seasons ago, Vermes oversaw a team record horrilbe opening to the season. SKC re-signed him.
    Last season, he led his team to our worst season, on points per game, since 1999. We fired whatshisname and hired Burns, and gave Vermes the biggest transfer chest in SKC history with which to rebuild.
    So, this year, winless, tieless, clueless. I'm guessing they name the stadium after him.
     
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  22. lukeD

    lukeD Member+

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This could be a summary for the past 5 to 10 years plus. SKC have always been vulnearable to the counter, which is what you give up when you play that way AND IT GOES TO PLAN where you have 65 to 85 percent of the ball.

    More recently, say the last 3 years, SKC have not been ball dominant and just conceed goals for fun because PV wants to play a certain way and can't seem to adapt his chess pieces to play a different way.

    Makes you wonder what secret he has on ownership. They didn't fire him when he got a DUI. Haven't fired him due to poor performance. They have come out publically and stated the team won't be competitive for another three transfer windows, starting three trasfer windwos subsequent to the next transfer window.

    He's literally never going to be fired. I am curious to see the crowd on Saturday. My kids are home from spring break and normally we would go. But no one wants to go see them now and we'll go spend our money elsewhere.
     
  23. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    My youngest is returning to the states next month, and planning his arrival in KC around the SKC schedule, though. And my oldest will never give up his season tickets. And least in my family, people still want to go.
     
  24. Kooth

    Kooth Member

    Sporting KC
    Mar 11, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have kept our season tics primarily because we like our seats and I do not want to lose them for when the team does turn around. I am seriously considering bringing a 'Vermes Out' sign on Saturday. I know it is not likely change anything, much like my emails to those idiots Moran and Marshall, but maybe I can be the one grain of sand that starts the avalanche. I can also say that I did something and that makes me feel better. I also like to walk down and clap for the team because I will always support the players and it is not their fault they are coached so poorly.
     
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  25. SportingKCFan

    SportingKCFan Member

    Sporting KC, KC Current
    Sep 2, 2010
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Kooth: I am seriously considering bringing a 'Vermes Out' sign on Saturday.]

    I held up a #VermesOut sign last year. You can’t get a sign through security that says anything negative about PV or the Club. I brought a sharpie and a white poster with a yellow card taped to it and that was let through. Later in the stands I took off the yellow card and wrote in the message. I held it up for the last ten minutes of the game in the east Cauldron stands. Was surprised none of the stadium staff confiscated it. Hopefully this helps if you decide to bring a sign.
     
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