We Must Put More on the Plate to Fight Poverty

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by MikeLastort2, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. MikeLastort2

    MikeLastort2 Member

    Mar 28, 2002
    Takoma Park, MD
    This is one of the best op-ed pieces on why fighting poverty on a world-wide basis is in the best interest of the USA.

    The conclusion in the last two paragraphs is particularly important (emphasis mine).

     
  2. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After spending the day in security-line downtown DC hades, I must say that all of this use of 'counter-terrorism' justifies the 'what I wanted anyway' is starting to wear thin to me.

    I mean, most of the 9-11 hijackers were, lets face it, disaffected middle-class youth, the kind that in America spraypaint swastikas in suburbia, drink crappy beer & smoke dope, and listen to NWA in their Daddy's SUV. In the Arab world, there are no girls, no dope, and no beer -- so they chose an alternative to express their angst.

    It was not long ago that the working poor were a model to the world, noble religious folk that took care of their own and silently suffered, hoping for a better life for their children. The real problem is that the poor in Arab countries have Imam's yelling through loudspeakers about the great Satan.

    While I do agree that idle hands of idle poor would be better spent getting jobs and working to support a family, better educated and weathier people with the same extremist views is more dangerous. Any attempts to eradicate poverty for counter-terrorism reasons needs to include counter-extremism.

    But again, I am *SICK* of everyone sticking their hands out asking for cash for their newest 'counter-terrorism' initiative. I think that Northern VA needs better roads with wider lanes to allow for quicker evacuations in case of a terrorist attack, and so I can get to work in less than 45 minutes. Which argument should I use in a "post 9-11" world.

    Oh, and how many years until we don't need all this security? When will it no longer be a 'post 9-11' world?
     
  3. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fighting worldwide hunger is but one of many DEMANDS that the world places at USA's door... fighting AIDS, fighting other infectious diseases, fighting world tragedies (tsunami, et al.) and a myriad other worthy efforts places this nation as the grand benefactor...

    While I support such worldwide hunger relief efforts; I do so only after everyone in the United States is fed... to wit, no person in this nation should be hungry while we are donating to other countries... domestic hunger exists and it should not! We need to more practive in our backyards on the hunger/powerty issue, before we volunteer to feed the world.
     
  4. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good points, but just to play devil's advocate, what are your thoughts that there are still many Americans who go hungry some nights, yet we're also the fattest nation on the planet?
     
  5. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  6. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lack of a compulsory draft! Basic training at Parris Island does wonders for the waistline!
     
  7. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Interesting. I agree that there are some real poverty issues in the US, and there is a real threat that the haves are distancing themselves from the havenots.

    I am not a socialist, and I don't know the answer, but common sense can tell us all that there are a boat loads of ceos and cfos that make several million a year, and that have parachutes that are beyond golden whether they do a good job or not. In my sleepy little berg, I just heard a woman complaining about laundry and how her friend had four --- FOUR --- washers and dryers.

    I don't know where I am going with this other than to say that we are moving rapidly into a world where the excesses of some are truly sickening even to a capitalist like myself.

    Having said all of that, there are some problems in our own society that I think lead me to disagree with your post to the extent that everyone here must be fed before we help out the rest of the world.

    We have an obligation as the superpower to do more in the world. To lead the relief effort in tragedy. To a great extent we do, however, we as a society are not educated enough on the problems of the world to know if we are being as effective as we can or should be.

    Part of the problem seems to be that we respond to the sensational, but not so much with the systemic failures in the world. I agree with the op-ed piece to the exent that the more we are seen with the white hat on around the world, the less of a target we will be.
     
  8. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So when will you be signing up?
     
  9. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So what's the answer?
     
  10. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Done. How about you?
     
  11. skipshady

    skipshady New Member

    Apr 26, 2001
    Orchard St, NYC
    I've read the "hijackers were upper middle class" argument a few times here and elsewhere but I don't think it discounts poverty as the root cause of terror.

    First, 9/11 hijackers are not representative of terrorists - they were selected for the particular campaign and because of the complexity of the job, they had to be educated and connected. That doesn't mean terrorist organizations don't depend on the poor and the disenfranchised for support and legitimacy.

    And at the very core of their motivation, were the hijackers that much different from Ivy League students who drove South during the civil rights movement? They thought they found a higher calling that they had to follow (or at least a fashionable cause) and was worth risking their lives for, even if they did not benefit from their actions directly.

    You mention the religious leaders - their messages are that much easier to spread because the poor have little to lose and are open to radicalism. Also, a nation without a strong middle class and a great disparity in wealth tend to be unstable - again, opening the door for religious fundamentalists.

    Hateful messages exist in every society - some countries just have a bigger audience than others.

    And we're not talking about just handouts here. It wouldn't cost corporations or us consumers to ensure that third world workers get living wages - we're talking a few cents on $50, $100. We're talking about easing trade barriers so that African-producted goods are a little more competitive in Europe and North America. Combined with some degree of debt forgiveness, living wages and fair(er) trade, it doesn't take too much to reduce poverty, which will ultimately benefit us.
     
  12. Mel Brennan

    Mel Brennan PLANITARCHIS' BANE

    Paris Saint Germain
    United States
    Apr 8, 2002
    Baltimore
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I promote AN answer all the time; placing free-market fundmentalism into context; to employ it as one of a spectrum of considerations reflective NOT of "human=consumer," or "human=economic man," but of "economy and consumption is both just one facet of being human AND has easily seen short-term, and likely more individualised benefits, and less easily seen, and likely more shared, costs." It certainly isn't THE answer, but may be a framework going word that has us talking and codifying more regularly along the lines of all the STAKEHOLDERS in an issue, as opposed to just the shareholders in a legal person that is bound to focus only on money, and not on humanity/life in general.

    As this child poverty stat in the US has been the case for some time (and is not the case, to such an extent, in other social democracies around the world - only Mexico has worse childhood poverty among "industrialised" nations than the US), what is your answer? More of the same frameworks and indexes? Which one of those indexes tells us of the long-term cost, EVEN TO THE CAPITALISM project, of such poverty, both on its face and in relation to other democratic nations? IOW, even on your terms, and keeping the framework we have, which is one you seem to like/think there are no real alternatives to, where is the analysis that tells us the real cost of such poverty within that system?
     
  13. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I already did my time, thanks for asking. Yet for some reason I highly doubt your "Done" statement.
     
  14. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I do yours!
     
  15. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL, you can look up people that served. There's proof out there that I signed up to join the Army. We all know that you never served and won't join.

    The only proof we have from you is your word and your word around here is worthless.
     
  16. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ

    They are of the current batch

    Look into the background of Ramzi Yousef a bit
     
  17. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey airhead: I like the way you weasel-worded that last post: "that I signed up to join"...that could mean either that you signed up with the U.S. Army to receive literature or you served a full tour of duty!

    And just in case you're interested airhead, there's proof out there that I signed up with the U.S. Air Force and served a full tour of duty!
     
  18. Sine Pari

    Sine Pari Member

    Oct 10, 2000
    NUNYA, BIZ

    Hey zoomie

    Shut your suck

    No one wants to hear your nonsense
     
  19. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You continuously promote theory and I recognize its merit. However, what is the first step that must be taken to achieve this goal?

    I don't think that there is one single answer, rather there are many localized and targeted solutions that work in one place but don't in another. But if I had to pick one thing, it would be an increase in quality eduction.
     
  20. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't buy it, but I love demolishing your in debate, so how about some information about your training, your unit, where you were stationed, etc.
     
  21. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    when someone signs up to join the military it means they signed up and joined. Had I wanted literature I would have signed up for literature.

    Even though continuing this is highjacking this thread I'd like to see proof.
     
  22. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago
    Well, actually ITN was on the books of the Texas Air National Guard in the early 70s. He was stationed in Houston, until he received a transfer to work on a political coampaign in Alabama. I reviewed a copy of his honorable discharge papers, but they appeared to be created in a times new roman font that was not available at the time.
     
  23. IntheNet

    IntheNet New Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    Northern Virginia
    Club:
    Blackburn Rovers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hey Dante...scroll back up to Post #8
     
  24. Norsk Troll

    Norsk Troll Member+

    Sep 7, 2000
    Central NJ
    Maybe they should "put food on their family."
    Or perhaps they could "make the pie higher."
     
  25. Dante

    Dante Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Binghamton, NY
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    what's your point? Do you ever have a point?
     

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