WCQ 2022: Matchday 6 - Brasil vs. Argentina (September 5, 2021)

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by Christina99, Sep 5, 2021.

  1. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The NT chef has tested positive for COVID. Yesterday he cooked an asado for all the team.
     
  2. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Thank you for confirming you haven't really read my posts. You do realize I stated, maybe as early as Sunday, that Brazil would probably lose all 3 points because as hosts CBF is responsible for the logistics, don't you? No? I see.
    Duh.
    A fair question, but Brazilians are not the only exception under "PORTARIA Nº 655, DE 23 DE JUNHO DE 2021 - DOU"
    Source:
    https://in.gov.br/pt/web/dou/-/portaria-n-655-de-23-de-junho-de-2021-327674155

    There are five exceptions (under Article 3 - look for Art 3o), beginning with citizens.
    The third exception (Art 3o III) applies to foreign players, as long as they identify themselves (this is where I believe CBF should have stepped in and obtained the exception themselves and this is the exception that AFA tried to obtain on Saturday night, as reported by multiple outlets).

    But hey, if you want to look at this post and do your "un brasilero! this is my house! time to assert dominance!" , don't let me stop you. It's your forum you're pissing in. Have fun swimming.
     
  3. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Ombak, I'm going to cut all the sarcasm and negativity. But, Andreas Pereira (Belgian born player but Brazilian nationalized) was in Manchester United on August 18th. The news came that he was being sent to Flamengo. And August 25th he was on the bench for Flamengo against Gremio. And on August 28 (still, only 12 days not the full 14 days quarantine) Andreas Pereira came on the pitch on the 81st min as a substitute and scored in the 84th min.

    How can we take the quarantine rule seriously?
     
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  4. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Also what needs to be remembered is that once the Argentinean team announced the squad, its the CBF's duty to secure a site that will allow the entire visiting team to participate in all activities (including practices). Again, this is why Canada is playing all their home games in the US
     
  5. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You don't have to take it seriously. Obviously from a medical standpoint it's not the brightest.

    But it is not uncommon for countries to make such exceptions. Some don't (like Chile I think? Not sure but I can look again EDIT: or Canada who you pointed out is using an alternative solution) and good for them for being more consistent

    But if the law says citizens can come in without quarantining, then that's what it says (the text is right there for everyone to read - to be very clear, it includes naturalized citizens, explicitly) and stupid or not, it answers the question of "why did these people skip quarantine?"
     
  6. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Guys, this thread is becoming a joke... lets not fall for the incessant trolling coming from both sides.

    Personally I say we try to limit our comments until FIFA/CONMEBOL reach a decision. None of us really know the whole scope of things and all this finger pointing and insult-trading is getting old.

    Didn't FIFA give AFA/CBF 6 days to present their arguments/evidence? How about we wait til those developments instead of having a pissing contest all week?
     
  7. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Every member of the NT tested negative:

     
  8. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Okay, so none of the Brazilian brothers that come on this thread want to acknowledge that Andreas Pereira was in Manchester UK on 8/18 and on 8/25 he was already on the pitch for Flamengo?
    @Ombak @Century's Best

    As both of you stated, a judge in Brazil ruled that the quarantine must be enforced on all incoming international travelers from a red list country, right? But Anvisa didn't enforce this rule with Pereira, correct?
     
  9. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Incorrect, read my post with the link to the law itself.
    There is an exception for citizens, including naturalized citizens (Andreas is a naturalized citizen).
    This same part of the law states that exceptions can be granted to international visitors representing organizations (like, say, AFA) and this is the exception that could have been given to Argentina had everything been done properly.
     
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  10. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  11. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What an absolute beast. Amazing.
     
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  12. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Buddy, you are now changing the narrative to "there is a law that needs to be obeyed, and we have proof that a judge said that everyone needs to obey by it" to now, "ohh, we could've given Argentina an exception had everything been done properly"

    Based on FIFA rules, do you know who is responsible with making sure that the exceptions are granted and the game can be played?
     
  13. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    And BTW, a rule that is enforced arbitrarily, is not a real rule then. We can't have compliance with something that is sometimes enforced and sometimes not enforced. This is a common problem in SA; where rules should be enforced we get a lot of "ehh, well, maybe, maybe not" and that kind of crap. Sorry, but if you are not always enforcing a rule, then you don't have a rule.

    Not only should the CBF be punished for this and 3pts be awarded to Argentina, FIFA and CONMEBOL need to come out and for once provide clear guidance that all games will be played and if any home team tries to this this crap (or what Brazil did to Indenpendiente (where the Brazilian customs held the players in the airport for 15 hours without food or water) this crap needs to stop. And, they should start suspending home teams for doing this crap.

    There is "picardia" and full-blown corruption, which is where we are heading. In the '19 Copa we had a president try to walk on to the field in the first half??! WTF?! its 2021, not 1950.
     
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  14. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Now Brazilian players based in England could be sanctioned by the Brazilian FA, who is invoking a FIFA rule which prevents players from featuring for their clubs if they are not released for international duty. Yeah, Brazil is telling Manchester City that they can't play Gabriel Jesus this weekend b/c he was not released to Brazil for the qualifying games. BTW, all week we heard that Brazil had decided no to call up EPL based players, but now Brazil wants to sanction the EPL.

    Again, what shi$ show Brazil has become. They are probably doing this to get some kind of leverage in their argument over the cancelled game against Argentina. What a mess.
     
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  15. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    If the FIFA and CONMEBOL investigation of this issue was truly fair, it should go something like this;

    FIFA: Where you aware of the quarantine restriction in your country?
    CBF: Yes, we even communicate this to Argentina
    FIFA: Where you aware of what players Argentina was brining?
    CBF: Yes, we get the required communications and notices
    FIFA: Do you where Martinez, LoCelso, Buendia and Romero play?
    CBF: Well of course, everyone knows
    FIFA: Did you secure a location for the game as required by our guidelines?

    ------ and that's it
     
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  16. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    :speechless::coffee:

     
  17. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    They're laughing stock.
     
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  18. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
     
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  19. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  20. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    RDP feels like the player we always need in our NT
     
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  21. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    CONMEBOL President Alejandro Dominguez addresses the suspension of the Brazil-Argentina game:

    "The protocol endorsed the entrance of players from England... The authoritative decisions of Brazil come from an autonomous entity. The ten countries [in CONMEBOL] had signed a sanitary protocol that endorsed the entrance of players from England and any part of the world. This is what made it possible to play our CONMEBOL tournaments, like the Copa Sudamericana, Libertadores, and the World Cup Qualifiers."

    "If the decision was down to CONMEBOL, I assure you all that the Brazil-Argentina match would have been played. I am convinced that matches have to take place on the field, I have the philosophy that matches must be decided on the pitch."

    Regarding ANVISA agents invading the pitch -- "It caught my attention, as a football fan. I think they could have done it before the game or waited for the match to end and do it after, because at 21:30 the Argentine players were already on a plane going back to Buenos Aires. The protocol protects, as it is signed by ten countries from South America."

    "It catches ones attention that the Argentine team had been on Brazilian soil for over 24 hours and that after the match they were also allowed to leave without any inconveniences."​

    https://www.ole.com.ar/seleccion/alejandro-dominguez-brasil-argentina_0_q_QWoVLQn.html
     
  22. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Those statements clearly support Argentina’s position. The question is, does FIFA (and ultimately TAS, if it’s appealed) agree with Conmebol?
     
  23. Christina99

    Christina99 Member+

    Argentina
    Sep 22, 2013
    Buenos Aires
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Such a mamarracho what happened. I still cant believe they did that, I dont really understand the purpose: Brasil are 1st at the qualys, they are gonna qualify no matter what, why the hell take out your rival like that? there was an agreement from all the CONMEBOL teams, and they take out their biggest rival with armed officials? it makes them look weak and as COWARDS, which i dont think is the case. Even if we totally could have won that game. What they did is ridiculous, and to their biggest rival. They will be forever tainted by this.

    FIFA should off course award the 3 points to Argentina and sanction Brasil somehow, but FIFA is super corrupt and ridiculous so i dont know

    Imagine if FIFA and CONMEBOL assure us that our players from the PL can enter Brasil and play, and then they ALLOW some outsiders health official to enter the pitch armed? That would be a terrible precedent. We should sue FIFA and CONMEBOL if that happened.
     
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  24. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    FIFA now does a 180 degree turn, sides with the EPL clubs who would not release their players for the FIFA international date, and allows the players they did not release to play their league matches. In exchange, Britain presumably will loosen quarantine restrictions for players in the future.

    FIFA is corrupt and unpredictable.
     
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