WCQ 2022: Matchday 6 - Brasil vs. Argentina (September 5, 2021)

You deserve credit for at least trying to see the Brazilian side, however much confusion there was at least at first. It's unfortunate that a substantial number of your compatriots display a lack of inquisitiveness and have impulsively and reflexively reacted by attacking Brazil.

 

What I believe carries no weight. What does matter are the facts and you have repeatedly ignored them, and you've used nothing but speculation ("everyone knows they play in the Premiership;" "fooling the nation of Brazil") as well as a starting misunderstanding of what's happening.

I tried to be diplomatic and took time to provide a lengthy explanation of what's happening, including the mention of a June 23 law that few Argentines, apparently, are even aware of.

You replied with a surprisingly vapid and frankly, foolish, statement. You misquoted and selectively edited my post. You have provided zero evidence that Anvisa went after the four players because:

1) they lied about playing in the Premiership
2) they lied about having been in England

Do you have that evidence?

Because this is NOT why Anvisa went after them. They provided FALSE INFORMATION about having been in the UK in the 14 days preceding their arrival in Brazil.

Again, my beliefs are irrelevant.

I have stated on BigSoccer (including over the past 24-36 ours) that I personally question the mainstream narrative. However, what I, the real-life person who uses the BigSoccer user ID "Century's Best" believe has no consequence.

What does have consequence, what does carry weight, what does matter is the fact that the Federative Republic of Brazil has a law on the books, promulgated on and effective from, June 23, 2021 that any foreigner entering Brazil and who has been in the United Kingdom, or in South Africa, or in India in the preceding 14 days needs to undergo a 14-day quarantine.

 

To everyone here who is Argentine - I know some supporters of Argentina on BigSoccer are not actually people born in Argentina, so if you don't speak Spanish, I regret that you will struggle to understand this video.... but this is a video from Argentine television news which looks at the situation.

The first video is shown in the YouTube channel of Gustavo Segré. He is an Argentine citizen who lives in Brazil; he speaks Portuguese fluently, knows Brazil very well, and is an economic expert.

He was also on a panel on LN+ in which Alex Campos, a high-ranking official of Anvisa, explains what happened.

I submit both videos below.

 

For clarification, please: who is the "they" in your sentence "they're already caught lying?" And what is the lie?

 

You're not paying attention. It's not about "Brazilian bubble" or whatever other line which will earn likes. It's about the facts.

You insist on the line about "it's stupid to think they weren't in England" when I have already made it clear that the issue is the fact that the four players (or if not the players themselves, a member of the Argentine delegation who filled out the forms) stated they had not been in the UK in the previous 14 days before their arrival.

If you can't or won't understand what the issue is - not that they lied about playing for English clubs or about ever being in England, but about being there in a recent time period which according to a law from June 23, 2021 mandates quarantines for 14 days for those who'd been present in the UK in the 14 days preceding their arrival in Brazil.... then I can't help you.

As for who knew or what didn't know, they are public figures..... that is all irrelevant. Anvisa has no obligation to know anything. You think "everyone" knows? That's YOUR opinion.

Re: dumb mistake by some administrative minion.... speculation, that's all you wrote.

 

Actually, he makes the point that I make: there's a law and the information provided by your team's delegation violated that law and those four players should not have even been in Brazil to begin with.

They weren't "speculating" - they were operating on the facts according the June 23, 2021 law, but since your team was scheduled to leave Brazil after the match anyway, they did so.

I see that you don't like what he said, but in his own subtitle, he points out AFA erred. This doesn't mean there were no errors by CBF or Anvisa or CONMEBOL or any other entity. But since you mention more facts came out, CBF issued a statement saying CBF notified AFA of the requirements re: sanitary laws on the books as far back as July 5, and then again, on August 11 and on September 2.

If this statement is factually correct, then it is AFA which will have to explain why somehow the four players stated they had not been in the UK within 14 days immediately preceding their arrival in Brazil when they had been there.

I see you ignored the LN+ interview with a high-ranking Anvisa official. Oh well.

 

The only "evidence" that AFA erred is Anvisa pointing the finger at someone who wasn't even physically there to err, so until they produce some real evidence that is also baseless speculation. They also lied about where they were. I don't believe a single thing that organization says at the moment. They can't get their facts straight.

 

No it does not. AFA, CONMEBOL and the CBF all got together on Saturday with Anvisa at the hotel where the Argentina team stayed. AFA, CONMEBOL and CBF had assurances that the game would go on.

On Sunday, for some unexplained reason, the Anvisa bureaucrats decided against the game taking place (no pointing fingers, but someone high up in the gov't did not like what was decided on Saturday)

And in all this, let's not forget why Brazil has a quarantine rule against the UK, its because the UK identifies Brazil as a not safe zone. Basically, the Bolsonaro doesn't like that his country is being called out for their bad handling of the pandemic, so he sets a BS quarantine rule.

PLEASE EVERYONE NOTE, THAT THE QUARANTINE RULE BY ANVISA DOES NOT APPLY TO BRAZILIAN NATIONALS!! this rule has NOTHING to do with safety, its a dopey rule created by a very little man currently serving as president of the biggest economy in South America. Yikes.

Yes, the travel rule does not apply to Brazilians. Anvisa and everyone in Brazil were aware of the four players (who had been kept in the same bubble restriction as during Copa America), but the game was called off by Anvisa.

I dont think that the Brazilian players were in on it, I don't think Tite was in on it, but clearly the fault here lies on the Brazilians. They gave assurances prior to Argentina entering the country, prior to the game, this is on them. It sucks for the Brazilian players, but this game cannot and should not be played in another time,

 

Also, Messi was going to break Pele's record. In Brazil. We just beat them twice in a row. Someone in the Brazilian gov't didn't want to lose face . . . geeze. I wonder who that could be

 

The fact that Brazilians (and here were have to include all, CBF, Anvisa and the Brazilian government) were initially all giving different stories is very telling. It illustrates what a sh#t show it is to rely on Brazil and how incompetent they were here.

The Brazilians in the last 48 hours are trying to coalesce under a consistent narrative, in order to make it seem like they had a clear protocol that was not followed.

This cannot be allowed to happen without people taking notice. One of the things that is require for Compliance is clear and consistent controls. That's not what happened here. It was inconsistent guidance and assurances that were not met. 100% this has to be blamed on the hosting nation.

 

Since Brazil forfeit the game so 3-0 win for Arg and 3 goals to Messi. Nice.

 

Ha ha, it will never be called a forfeit b/c officially the game was suspended by the game officials due to outside interference. So, even if Argentina is given 3pts it won't count as a real loss by Brazil. . . see, they get their wish, they don't have to suffer the humiliation of being beaten 3 times in a row by Argentina and Messi doesn't break Pele's record in Brazil. . . well done Bolsonaro

 

Quickly....

- President Bolsonaro had nothing to do with this. Anvisa is part of the government, but Anvisa is an autonomous agency. Gustavo Segré, your compatriot who lives and works in Brazil, who speaks Portuguese fluently, and who is very familiar with Brazil stated in the first of the two videos I linked that Anvisa does not take orders from President Bolsonaro; in fact, Segré mentioned your country's agency ANMAC to make the point.
- Anvisa has no power to stop a sporting event, and in the second video which I linked, a senior official of Anvisa is interviewed by LN+, one of your country's television news shows/networks. He explained directly that Anvisa neither sought nor had the authority to stop the match.
- President Bolsonaro is the chief executive, but he does not sign laws. Much like the U.S., Brazil is a federal constitutional republic with executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government.
- CBF stated in an official note yesterday it notified AFA of updated rules and laws re: Covid-19 on July 5, on August 11, and on September 2. AFA is likely going to claim CBF did not do this, and if that's the case, rather than it becoming a "he says she says" situation, either/both sides will be burdened with the onus of proof. Time will tell.

 

Haha, soccer banter. What would rivalries be like without it. I guess that's what Brazilians get from their biggest rival after this summer's continental tournament - which followed a long succession of Brazilian triumphs over Argentina.

You guys say "habrá revancha." We say "a gente joga de novo um dia."

As it is.

 

Well, if you understood despite your stubborn position that Anvisa went after them NOT because they lied about ever being in England or for playing in the Premiership....

Ah, never mind.

The worst blindness is that which makes a blind person not want to see.

Bye.