WCC.. Check out the English Attitude

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Wolves_67, Nov 6, 2003.

  1. Wolves_67

    Wolves_67 Member

    Oct 27, 2002
    Pasadena, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's some Eurosnobery (new word) at it's best at the BBC site.
    Seems there is no interest in the "farce" called the World Club Championship and even if some team from somewhere other than Europe won it's only because the Euro teams don't care because, after all, the Champions League is the real championship of the world and the WCC would just be a rest and break for them.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/h2/h2...bc.co.uk>&board=sixosix.international&sort=Te
     
  2. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    <cynicism>
    Right... the European teams took it so lightly that Beckham got himself sent off against Necaxa...
    </cynicism>

    I strongly believe that to get a red card you have to be either extremely reckless, or taking the game very seriously.
     
  3. Prenn

    Prenn Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    Northern Ireland
    Club:
    Bolton Wanderers FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Face it, we don't give a *#*#*#*# about the WCC. Now you've got that sorted get on with your life.
     
  4. sendorange

    sendorange Member+

    Jun 7, 2003
    Bigsoccer.com
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The BBC are entirely right.

    No-one gives a toss about the WCC and the last tournament was a farce. ManYoo played a largely second string experimental team. It was like a holiday for them.

    As for Beckham's sending off, that was just a harsh decision for a late tackle. Nothing in it.

    The only people who want the WCC are a few South American and MLS fans. Europe doesn't care, and is the home of club football.
     
  5. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    This subject is the most effective means of getting every South American on the planet to get a mighty huff on. You could feed a Jim Davidson audience for a month on the chips that appear as soon as someone brings this up.

    We don't care. By God, does it matter?

    If FIFA finally manage to make it work properly, don't allow it to interfere with proper football competitions and, by some miracle, it becomes important and significant in its own right, THEN we'll care. That's just the way of the world.

    Get over it. Seriously.
     
  6. denver_mugwamp

    denver_mugwamp New Member

    Feb 9, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Actually I see some good in it...

    Sure, it's meaningless but it would be a great way to generate some revenue for MLS by playing some games in team-owned stadiums. The European teams are going to use it as a practice, but it certainly makes more sense to do some kind of tournament than to have endless Champions World type tours every year.
     
  7. jd2084

    jd2084 New Member

    Aug 1, 2001
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really don't understand the attitude you're putting out here.

    If FIFA put together a good competition that didn't interfere (not likely) why wouldn't you care? It gives a team a chance to claim the title of world's best, and also gives Europe a chance to prove to SA the fact that they are far superior. Not to mention - $$$$$$. I can see this being a big draw if it is held somewhere like the US, China or Mexico. Just look at how well the ManU tour drew this summer.
     
  8. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Depends on your viewpoint. I'm all for coming over and helping MLS teams generate revenue and profile in a series of matches that prepares both clubs for a new season. Why do we need to formalise it and pretend to decide the "Champion of the World".

    If a European team won, would all the South American whiners piss off and leave us alone for two years? Would it be "OK, you're better, we're sorry."

    Would it fuck.

    Last thing we need is some pointless FIFA political toy/South American pacifier toy getting in the way of the serious business of European club football.

    EDIT for second post:

    I don't care about appointing some team "World Champion" on the back of a bunch of friendlies played in whatever location is deemed to be most lucrative for the FIFA machine.

    Bottom line is that a team that has won the Champions League is already the best team in the world, they don't need to beat Hearts of Oak and Rio de Chiponshoulderio to prove that. There is nothing to prove in the eyes of European football fans and therefore no interest in mickey mouse tournaments that purport (falsely) to prove any such thing.

    Sorry if that stings, but there it is.
     
  9. jd2084

    jd2084 New Member

    Aug 1, 2001
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just a couple of points for you to ponder:

    Doesn't that stupid thing called the "Carling/Worthington/Worthlessness Cup" already get in the way of Euro ball?

    If the winner of the Champions League is the best team that's pretty sad, considering last year's winner didn't even have to finish in the top two of their own domestic league to get into the competition.
     
  10. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    1) No. It's final is played in February. The Champions League doesn't really hot up until March. Plus, it gives small clubs in English football much needed revenue and lesser Premiership clubs the chance of a trophy (obvious "Liverpool are the holders" jokes - fire at will! ;) ). That's far more important than making room for some random jamboree on the other side of the world dedicated to making the South Americans feel better about themselves.

    2) Are you saying the Champions League is NOT the pinnacle of club football?
     
  11. jd2084

    jd2084 New Member

    Aug 1, 2001
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No. It is the best competition in the world right now. I'm just asking how the winner of the Champions League didn't even have to finish as runner-up in their own league, let alone win it.
     
  12. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    The reason is clear - UEFA, under pressure from the leading clubs, expanded the tournament in order to raise the number of games in order to make it a larger, more marketable product. To achieve this, they allowed non-Champions into the competition.

    You will find no more implacable opponent than me to the concept of contrived, commercially-motivated competitions that do little to reward genuine endeavour and/or achievement and purport to do all of this in the name of the beautiful game despite this being palpably untrue ...
     
  13. jd2084

    jd2084 New Member

    Aug 1, 2001
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's good. So if FIFA came up with a quality tournament that didn't interfere with Euro ball and allowed you to rub it in to the South Americans who think Boca or River could be United or Real then you would support it.

    Oh yeah - They should can the Carling Cup. Small clubs all get to compete in the FA Cup. The Carling is a joke and just takes up time when players should be recovering from real matches. One cup per country is plenty.
     
  14. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Defined how? Bearing in mind that this is a competition designed to

    a) enrich FIFA and
    b) actively impede the growin predominance of UEFA competitions

    Achieved how? That would mean it would have to be between mid-July and early August, would have to feature no more than four games and would have to be held under the explicit - and enforced - inderstanding that no one treats it as anything more than a series of friendlies in which European teams can warm up their squads and bed in new players.

    Irrelevant. I feel no such compunction. I just wish they would stop whining. Not even the greatest competition in the world is going to achieve that, so why give it anymore thought? I don't care about rubbing it in to them, they are unimportant.

    Well, I don't support a small club, but Tranmere are my second team and I can tell you right here, right now that the additional revenue from two domestic cup competitions is an absolute godsend to a league in which financial armaggedon is an all too real possibility at more clubs than not.

    Says who? Not the majority of Nationwide League football fans. And they are the only voice that count. End of story.
     
  15. Harry Ottis Guff

    Harry Ottis Guff BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 2, 2003
    Im gonna slap you!
    I agree with what Matt said!!

    And if I may...Call it arrogance if you want, afterall, you are in a great position as yanks to define it, but the WCC means less than even you can possibly imagine. Can you remember that goal you scored when you were just thirteen on that sunday afternoon in the summer? That is the kind of faint memory that the WCC invokes for any European, so little does the tournament mean. Infact, my ignorance stretches so far that I would be more likely to recall exactly how many tree's were damaged by napalm in the Vietnam war than I would any game ever played in the WCC. I can proudly say that even that pathetic, pointless game played between the Champion League and UEFA cup winners means more to me than every game every ever played in the WCC. I am so ignorant towards this gay tournament, that I wake up at night unable to sleep because ignorance hangs in the air, and when I go outside to breath some fresh oxygen, there are ignorant patrols out looking for me, hunting me down because I the number 1 criminal on the Euroean ignorant list. Why would I give a *#*#*#*# about helping teams in the U.S or South America gain revenue, or popularity?
     
  16. RichardL

    RichardL BigSoccer Supporter

    May 2, 2001
    Berkshire
    Club:
    Reading FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England


    so you think the likes of Inter, Real Madrid, Bayern etc would be desperate for a WCC if the Carling Cup didn't exist?

    The Carling Cup is very devalued these days, but it exists because it's played in the midweek gaps when there aren't european matches. If they were to change it to be a 3 week long post (or pre) season tournament teams would refuse to enter.

    who's to say they aren't the best team in their league in the year they win the champions league though?
     
  17. jd2084

    jd2084 New Member

    Aug 1, 2001
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They obviously weren't as they didn't win it then either!
     
  18. Wolves_67

    Wolves_67 Member

    Oct 27, 2002
    Pasadena, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reminds me of England's attitude towards the World Cup before 1950... We gave them a nice introduction to the competition...:D
     
  19. Harry Ottis Guff

    Harry Ottis Guff BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 2, 2003
    Im gonna slap you!
    You might think Europeans are being arrogant when we are merely being realistic, yet this offends you because you dont like the truth. The WCC means very little to European sides, and is probably more of a hinderence than anything else.

    The Champions League is the only inter-league tournament that really matters. And no, winning this doesnt mean you are the best team in the world, or even in Europe. It just means you have won the Champions league! I dont even think there is a best team as such, because games are always different, and when you watch the top European sides play they are all brilliant, and there is too little between them to say who is "best." Winning a tournament rquires luck as much as anyting else.

    Face it, the WCC is not a tournament that matters to Europens, its as simple as that, few people even watch it.
     
  20. Penarol1916

    Penarol1916 New Member

    Apr 22, 2002
    Chicago, IL
    I want to know how this turned into a bash South America thread when there has been nobody on this thread from South America advocating a WCC.
    Sure you have a couple of crazy Argentines saying things that make no sense, but that's what they do, they say stupid things.
    Don't take that as a license to attack the rest of us. I could give a crap about the WCC, as there is already too much being played with the Libertadores and Copa Sudamerica. With Mexico's inclusion all the leagues that are any good are involved in one of two big cups that matter to the people in each hemisphere, so what does it matter?
     
  21. Matt Clark

    Matt Clark Member

    Dec 19, 1999
    Liverpool
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Fair enough. Append "some of" to all my previous comments about South Americans.
     
  22. Penarol1916

    Penarol1916 New Member

    Apr 22, 2002
    Chicago, IL
    Oh that's fine, I suppose you wer recalling the games in the 60's and 70's when we really played like animals.
     
  23. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia

    Anytime I ever here a European complain about the baseball's World Series or some other complaint about an American "World Championship" I will produce your post and say "take the beam out of your eye".

    A world championship is always important what I don't see is why Europe is so reluctant to take part of one. If you're the best prove it!! OTOH you are right about the schedule.
     
  24. cosmosRIP

    cosmosRIP Member

    Jul 22, 2000
    Brooklyn NY
    Calling the CL winner "the best team in the world" is not the same as calling them "World Champions".
     
  25. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Tsk tsk. A difference in semantics can't hide the similarity in spirit between both attitudes.
     

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