The one thing that concerns me is not Ozil, but more or less - the entire squad. We still don't have a reliable back 4. I don't care if merte or badstuber gets picked, but whoever does - has to be groomed to play with hummels and lahm, period. Also, our attack was horrible yesterday. Faroe Islands or not, we need some creative impulse. I know, I know, 3-0, but I was expecting like a 5-0 or 6-0 whooping. Clearly, this is a problem we're facing - creativity.
Reread my post......I was only talking about his national team performances....couldn't care less how good or bad he playing for Madrid. I'm assessing his games for the national team. How about Badstuber.....time and time again we had to hear from you how despite being one of the most consistent performers for the NT and our best defender in the last 2 years how he should be replaced by höwedes who hasn't played as a CD for almost 2 years now. Gomez Even when he scoring at will in the group stage at EC he was no good for this system and how Klose or no striker at all would be much better. Blaming everyone around Hummels but him when he has a bad game...... And this isnt a Bayern v BVB thing so please don't turn it into that.
If we can integrate schmelzer now and he actually performs to that standard.. We can have Lahm hummels badstuber schmelzer at the back... That's not bad actually A beasting Khedira and piggy in the middle Muller Ozil reus/schurrle Reus/Podolski upfront With kroos and gotze as super subs Boetang and howedes rotating when needed in the back Benders whenever we need utility Our attack is Absoluetly ridiculous, but for major tournaments in the final stages we do need consistent defense. So loew better start using the same guys from now on.
His time at Madrid is CRUCIAL to understand his game for the NT. To claim he has dropped in form or is sporadic is simply not true. He's gotten better since Madrid and also gotten a lot better for the NT. The problem is, there is still a lack of understanding on what role he plays and just how important it is for Loew to structure the team around him. That always fails to be in any argument about him. Either you want him to be Messi or he is rubbish. Badstuber is clumsy and has moments of madness occasionally. He benefits from playing at Bayern, thus rarely tested by sides that attack directly. When he does face top opponents, he has been exposed for these flaws. I've always declared him to be one of the best passers and that he really benefits from someone like Hummels next to him. Let's not make him out to be anything else. I call it like it is. My Gomez criticisms were always contextualized by the systems around him. What you don't seem to understand is the idea that even if a striker scores, there are numerous ways for him to affect the team. Don't mistake this as an attack on a striker and person I otherwise like, quite a bit. Also, if it's not obvious by now, from having watching the NT with or without him, it's fairly obvious by watching Bayern now. Teams play worlds differently with and without him. Unfortunately, the players Bayern and Germany have simply suit another type of striker as the foundation to build their success on going forward. False. It's one thing to critize an obvious individual error but the way things on BS work with most of you is you need scapegoats so when Hummels is involved in one but also someone else, it's worth pointing out. Hummels was turned for Italy's first goal but why was he drawn out? Because the fullback didn't do his job. But of course the narrative becomes all about Hummels' fault.
Actually, Hummels take a lot of responsibility for that. Boateng had Cassano cornered but Hummels went for the naive tackle And badstuber too, who just watched.
Of course he does, but he did so because Boateng was ill positioned to make the proper tackle. It wasn't the first time Hummels had to do that in the tournament either. Either way, it just pointed to a larger problem that the defense was still improperly structured and Hummels was integrated far too late as a starter.
Just to wade into this debate, I dont think the problem at all is the players in any way. Germany have lost a great deal of fluidity in the last few months but part of the reason, I feel, has been Loew's insistence on using different formations. The Germans are almost hardwired to the 4231 and can play it with their eyes closed. But formation changes as Loew did against Italy and Faroes respectively have often led to the loss of that fluid movement that has characterized the German play over the past couple of years. This then becomes particularly evident when watching a player like Ozil who probably now stops to take a touch and assess the position of his players before passing, which is something he probably did by rote while playing the 4231. Given Loew's insistence on reducing time on the ball and quick passing play, I am sure he realizes this too and I feel we will see this get better and better over this year. At home against Faroes is possibly the best time to experiment too, although it is never easy when a team has 10 men almost inside their own box.
Yes and Loew has a history with this. Khedira, Mueller and Neuer are all star players who delivered in the WC2010, but also began to feature almost as soon as the tournament started. Hummels making the tackle was more or less his lack of judgement, he should have just bossed Cassano to make a back pass or mistake instead of going to get the ball off his right foot. As you said, and I agree - Loew should start defining his back four more rigidly. I was worried that he chose Merte again in place of badstuber. Whoever he decides to go with, he should stick with it. I have to say, it takes experience and an element of class to react so quickly though, Cassano was almost automated - turned 180 degrees and delivered a perfect cross. Well done even.
I agree and this is in part due to Muellers loss of form recently and Gomez's introduction, who's movement is far more contingent with Kroos or Ribery rather than Ozil.
I disagree, Badstuber is not a one v one defender, but his anticipation is great and he doesn't allow himself to get into those kinds of positions in the first place. Against Madrid you can hardly, hardly say he was exposed or anything like that. He is not Mats Hummels or Vidic in terms of pure ability but his ability to read the game (probably why he's a good passer besides his technique) is tremendous. He really lacks pace, and one v one versus Messi or Ronaldo could get smoked, but I think he'd make sure they would'nt get the ball in the first place.
He's just very raw still. He doesn't have the natural talent Hummels does so when he is exposed it's far more telling. I don't think his early Bayern protection helped him to be honest but I think he has gotten better and I remain a proponent of Löw creating a partnership between him and Hummels going forward. It's funny you brought Vidic up because for all his ability as a defender his main weakness has always been tricky, pacy attackers which ALWAYS turned him. I'm talking Agbonglahor, Bent, Torres, Ashton, etc. Badstuber is similar in this regard. He still struggles with these types to the point where you see it gets in his head. He retreats when he faces these types of players and oftentimes he gets rash as a result. The Madrid game stood out for me more for this reason. I think the team as a whole for the most part (but not by much) over the course of two legs were composed and structured but Badstuber became more and more agitated and if I remember correctly made a couple of terrible plays that resulted in the same number of rash challenges that could easily have sent him off. Having said that it's not a major criticism as I think he's on the right track but I think a distinction should be made. There is something to be said for defenders who aren't inherently gifted but can progress at a steady pace and learn from those around - they can be extremely valuable.
Which terrible play if I may ask? I think you remember wrongly or you are mixing Gustavo with Bads. Bads never got into any rash challenge until extra time when he had to foul Benzema high in the madrid half to foil a Madrid potential breakaway. I have the Madrid game recorded and I even rewatched like 2 weeks ago, You can point to the exact moment in the game so we can all verify Like I said most criticism are something created in our head and not based on facts on the field. And which early bayern protection are we talking about here? You mean playing with Buyten is a protection for any player or even with Demichelis, Tymoschuk or Breno? So which Bayern protection
Badstuber has a great understanding of the game for his age, that's why he's such a good passer and avoids mistakes. That said, I actually think that of the two Bayern backs it's Boateng who can become the world class defender, he has the athleticism and natural defensive talent if he can ever eliminate the mistakes. Which, quite frankly, isn't too absurd a thought, given how young he still is. At the same age Vincent Kompany was also often caught out of position and forced to rely on his athleticism and natural talent to clean up his mistakes. Now he's one of the top 2 centerbacks in the world. That's part of why I liked the Dante pick up for Bayern so much, not only is he their best CD right now, but he's a great example for Boateng to learn from. I didn't mind seeing Mertesacker out there with Hummels given Schmelzer's injury. For all the shit we give Merte, much of it deserved, he is the most reliable and consistent of our defenders. And with a makeshift LB solution of moving Badstuber out there, helping make sure Hummels at least someone reliable in the middle wasn't a bad call. With so long to go before the WC getting Hummels to really become a mainstay at his best for the NT should be one of the priorities in defense, because despite his strong EM, he's still very new to the NT and has yet to grow consistent. That could give us that second anchor other than Lahm to fit Badstuber/Boateng/Wollscheid/Hoewedes and a LB next to.
It was Badstuber. I remember a couple. One on Di Maria and the one you mentioned which was rash, despite having to break a counter. This of course isn't an isolated incident. He has done this before when there was no need, against smaller teams. In the Euros, there was an incident as well. Possibly against Portugal where he went in when there was no need. There were a couple in his first season, one against Nani I believe. He over-commits when he doesn't have to. By protection I mean he was integrated into a side that didn't get the exposure normal defenders do in their final third. Let's be very clear here. Bayern has always dominated possession. It's one of the few teams that don't get exposed at the frequency as other defenders. This isn't the same as noting Bayern didn't have a comprehensive defense. Consequently when he is exposed he looks out of sorts and over-commits. This is unique to him, similarly to Hummels' drawback being that he over-commits himself positionally.
The incident with Di maria, He did not commit a foul on Di Maria, and every sensible defender knows that its best to foul the opponent high up in the field before the become a threat. The Nani incident, Nani was streaking down the right side the Left back Lahm was out of position and Bads had to clip him like every sensible defender would have done. If he had left Nani , nani would have had a one on one chance vs Neuer, I wonder why anyone would knock a defender for nipping an attack and taking a yellow rather than let it become a full scale problem on the keeper. Actually Bayerns high defence is always a nightmare for defenders, Sitting deep is the play pattern every defender prefers, How many top defenders can effectively manage a high line of defence? Is it Pique, Vidic or who? Sitting deep to defend was what made Breno to look decent at Nurnberg when he played the bayern high line we all saw how that played out. When the Chelsea defence played a high line under AVB we saw how they looked, vs when they played deeper under RDM. Imagine what would have happened if Chelsea had played a high line vs Barca or Bayern Have you tried to imagine how Mertersacker and friedrich would have coped vs Messi and Spain in 2010 if we had played the high line?
You don't understand what I'm saying. It's the rashness of his tackles and his willingness to over-commit when he doesn't have to, that's a notable drawback for him. And I wasn't talking about a high line. It has nothing to do with the protection I referenced.
Still amusing how some players are being hyped here while others are overly criticized. Let's exaggerate the things I'm reading here a little shall we? - Mertesacker plays 3 big tournaments without any decisive error in the important games. Still watching him being tall and stiff in the hips and all is just agitating. Everything is so far behind Hummels who made that youth team mistake in the semifinal. I mean seriously Hummels is this vast accumulation of incredible talent. Who cares about actual performances? - Badstuber as the National Teams' most constant CB of the last 2 years is just lacking talent, it's almost pitiable to observe his levelheaded, boring stile of play whereas Hummels direct approach to challenging opponents is the real deal. He should be thankful to be allowed to play alongside Mats Hummels. Anyway it wasn't Hummels fault at all before the 1-0 against Italy. I mean seriously why wasn't Badstuber expecting the cross on the first post... I hope you catch the irony... Seriously I hope Hummels is turning out to be a world class defender but I'm getting dizzy reading all that biased posts about our CB. *sigh*
And imagine if Hummels was the guy playing so good in CL 2 years in a row while Badstuber was the guy who sucked big time in EL and CL and had those crucial mistakes against Marseille etc.
You know we would be having Bads German citizenship renounced right now for being such a slouch against mediocre opponents
Hummels had an exceptional tournament, if you don't believe so you're talking out of your ass. He was unstoppable, and yes - a crucial mistake against Italy but I can't fault him that heavily, he's going to be HUGE for us. The thing about SirManchester is that he's always been very critical of Badstuber. Yes, Badstuber is clumsy and not exactly fast but I still think he's an exceptional defender even at his age. The fact that he's nailed a starting spot for both Bayern and the NT, and has gotten praise not only from coaches in Germany but even Ancelotti speaks to his enormous talent.
I would say this was Hummels fault too, got killed by RVP way too easy there Hummels had a good tournament, but he wasnt exceptional, he was at fault for 2 goals out of the 5 we conceded during the tournament.
I am critical of Badstuber but I still prefer him at CB...so what does that say? In addition, let's quell the myths of Hummels 'sucking' in EL and CL... and put hings into context. NO player can do well when the team isn't prepped for that stage! Especially when that player lacks experience. That's the case with Hummels. But his potential is incredible and he's easily been the best defender in Germany for three years now, easy. That's a lot to go by for the praise he should get and encouragement to see him start. Moreover BECAUSE Loew doesn't favor integrating those who deserve it, there should be more of an outcry if he isn't integrated and that happened late as well. It's a simple matter of merit, long term vision coupled with progression.
Of course he's gifted and has that exquisite feel for the ball, no one's denying that. He pulls the strings of the German midfield, when he's on his game. When he's not he goes missing and this happens far too often. I never said that I expect him to be more consistent, especially in the meaningful games. Messi is not the best player on the planet because of those 30 or 60 seconds it's because he performs consistently at the highest level, just like Iniesta. Of course they have their moments of magic just like Ozil does with the big difference being that the latter goes missing far more often in big games. No, agreed my criticism was probably too harsh considering it was a game against faroe. Haven't seen much from him against Austria though either so far. He's made too many mistakes under pressure
The Euro (and the Italy match in particular) also showed that Hummels is still prone to his brain farts, and they are usually of the costly variety. Still, these are just growing pains for a future great CB, IMO.