Post-match: WC 2014: Brasil x México, 17 de Junho de 2014 [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Century's Best, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Did we really need 4 posts of Ochoa's face? Overreactions are what any selecao thread is known for, no need to be surprised. I think these people would kill themselves if they had to watch santos, vasco, or flamengo every week.
     
  2. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    every goal there's a cause and reaction to it.. you can also say the first croatian goal was a result from Brazil trying to press Croatia and relieve some of the early tensions of the WC.

    So if Brazil was tied 1 x 1 with Croatia we should assume Brazil can't break past that defense either? Assumptions are just that.. assumptions
     
  3. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Nope, but given the course of the game, it was probably the most likely of scenarios. We would have had little over 20 minutes to do so and we had been playing awful in the second half.
     
  4. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    May 8, 2008
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I actually enjoyed your posts Guigs. Thanks.

    About Croatia (again?): the chance of that game ending at 1:1 if we didn't have that penalty is the same as the game ending 4:1, 6:1, 1:8, or a meteor falling on the pitch and killing everyone in a 15km radius. It's impossible to change the past or predict the future.
     
    IVO ! and Guigs repped this.
  5. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Sensible suggestion...

    Meteor falling seems the most likely by the way.

    Look, Germany had less shots than we did against Mexico, scored 4 times in less chances... And people are saying they are a super team when they allowed a REALLY bad portuguese team to strike from inside their box. The Netherlands not only had less shots than us, they also had Casillas gift them 2 goals AND their GK worked way more than JC did. I also consider that Sergio Ramos is not Thiago Silva... And there's no way Robben is outrunning Thiago Silva, Luiz Gustavo and David Luiz.. like he outran Pique, Ramos and Busquets.

    So in theory if we're going to take a look at all possibles scenarios, that same dutch team plays against yesterday's Brazil, they are having the same exact game Mexico had and hope that their GK has an inspired game like Ochoa.

    But... isn't that just silly talk?
     
  6. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You are making it sound like Germany had several less shots than us. They had ONE less shot and more shots on target.

    Netherlands had 13 total shots vs Spain (1 less than us), EXCEPT 11 of theirs were on target to our 8.

    Hardly the same scenario. Don't try to twist it.
     
  7. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    In your head maybe.. they had 5 shots on goal 8 out of target.. scored on 4 opportunities...

    10 from inside the box, Brazil allowed 2 against Mexico while allowing most of the Croatian shots from inside the box... Clearly Felipao worked hard to stop shots from coming from inside the box.

    Also they had 12 shots

    Not trying to twist it, but all scenarios are just that, assumptions and scenarios, if before the game you told me, Mexico will have 2 shots actually reaching the goal, both from outside of the box, while Brazil will have 8 shots on target with 5 clear cut scoring chances... I would take it EVERYTIME!!!!

    the reaction to it.. is playing the results, Brazil scores 3 of those and we're talking about how sound Paulinho, T. Silva, David Luiz and Luiz G have been on that game, only allowing 2 attempts from inside the box and shots from really far.
     
  8. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Sorry Croatia had 4 shots from inside and 5 from outside, because they are counting that corner as a shot. Their best scoring opportunities all coming from headers inside the box.
     
  9. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    No. I pulled those stats from FIFA.com (ESPNFC has the same, Whoscored has even less favorable statistics for Brazil). So where did you get yours from?

    Not trying to twist it, but all scenarios are just that, assumptions and scenarios, if before the game you told me, Mexico will have 2 shots actually reaching the goal, both from outside of the box, while Brazil will have 8 shots on target with 5 clear cut scoring chances... I would take it EVERYTIME!!!!

    Paulinho made 1 tackle all game, 0 interceptions and 1 clearance.
     
  10. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  11. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Fifa and Whoscored counts blocked shots, there's the difference.

    Paulinho and Luiz had 1 job.. protect the wings and herd the ball to the middle of the pitch, mission accomplished I would say, when Mexico tried going down the wing they ran into Paulinho and Luiz, but they were not aggressively defending, they just blocked the way and made Mexico either take them on (which they didn't) or back track, which gave time for Alves and Marcelo to track back, and when Mexico was getting the ball forward Paulinho would come up and herd them into the middle of the pitch were Luiz was there to challenge.

    I watched the game twice already, and until Ramires left the game and Paulinho and David Luiz started going forward more because the game was still tied it was working to perfection. Mexico would take the ball and you would see Paulinho come up and give the middle of the pitch, Mexico would take it and then Gustavo would challenge.

    That was the story of the first half... Check to see how many times people dribble past Paulinho, you're going to see a bunch.
     
  12. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    They count blocked shots for Germany, and again, the Dutch and the German only scored from inside the box.. Brazil set up a defense where you don't get shots from!? inside the box... HOOORAY Felipao!! good thing he watched that Germany game 3 times already.
     
  13. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Blocked shots aren't on target.

    Just because it worked vs Mexico doesn't mean it will vs the top teams....
     
  14. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Shots ON TARGET aren't blocked.

    Paulinho and Luiz had 1 job.. protect the wings and herd the ball to the middle of the pitch, mission accomplished I would say, when Mexico tried going down the wing they ran into Paulinho and Luiz, but they were not aggressively defending, they just blocked the way and made Mexico either take them on (which they didn't) or back track, which gave time for Alves and Marcelo to track back, and when Mexico was getting the ball forward Paulinho would come up and herd them into the middle of the pitch were Luiz was there to challenge.

    I watched the game twice already, and until Ramires left the game and Paulinho and David Luiz started going forward more because the game was still tied it was working to perfection. Mexico would take the ball and you would see Paulinho come up and give the middle of the pitch, Mexico would take it and then Gustavo would challenge.

    That was the story of the first half... Check to see how many times people dribble past Paulinho, you're going to see a bunch.[/QUOTE]
    upload_2014-6-18_10-51-8.png

    Paulinho spent most of his time in the center......
     
  15. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    upload_2014-6-18_10-53-0.png

    Luiz Gustavo stayed back and offered more protection, which is his job. As you can see, Paulinho did go forward (which is part of his role) and he was poor, which is the point most people are trying to make.
     
  16. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    We're talking about 1 extra shot on target from Germany here.. really? Germany had 6 scored on 4... instead of 5 on 4.. really?

    footstats.net also has a shot map, they don't add blocked shots, if I miscounted 1 is that REALLy that big of a deal..

    Now tell me if I tell you against Cameroon
    Brazil will have 5 clear cut chances at goal and Cameroon will only have shots from outside of the box with 2 reaching our GK, with Alves and Marcelo not being a defensive liability.. you wouldn't take that?

    You're out of your mind!
     
  17. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    1 extra shot in ONE less game. That's a big difference.

    Not my point. What will happen vs Germany, Spain, Holland, etc?
     
  18. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Did you noticed that Luiz Gustavo played as a central defender for a WHOLE lot of the second half? And yes Paulinho stayed in the middle of the pitch which is exactly what he was meant to do. On the second half he pushed forward and we became more vulnerable, was fixed later..

    look at your heat map, Paulinho Hardly went forward
     
  19. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I'm talking on just the Mexico game... if you include both games Brazil had way more shots, what are you saying?
     
  20. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    There's darkened space right at the top of the half circle. He went forward and only completed 79% of his passes. Poor.
     
  21. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
  22. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Shots on target and no, they didn't.
     
  23. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Second half, straight up watch the game again, Paulinho plays as a Center forward and David Luiz as a CM while Luiz Gustavo plays as a CB..
     
  24. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
  25. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I've watched it twice. Don't confuse Luiz making runs as him playing CM. He didn't even pass the halfway line.....
     

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