Wayne Rooney questions

Rooney is not a savior or english football, ppl who are claiming he is are idiots as for 1 England dont need a savior and 2 hes not even our best young talent as Joe Cole and Defoe are better than him IMO.
I personally first noticed him about 18 or so month ago when he was playing for the England under 17 side against Holland where he ripped apart the Dutch defence on many occasions, but when everyone else noticed him i have no idea.
Is he as good as everyone says he is? IMO no he isn't but he is a very good young talent. Half the time he has played for the England senior team than ball has just bounced off him and he has looked awful but he has put in 2 very good performances in an England shirt one of those performances against Turkey where he made fools of the Turkish side and the other great performance was against Leichtenstein at Old Trafford.
IMO Ronney will develop in to a central midfielder in the Scholes sense and will become a world class player. At the moment he is being played out of position IMO and looks far more dangerous in a deeper role.

 

Rooney is by far the best young talent in English football. I don't see how anyone can say that Defoe or Joe Cole are better than him. Defoe is a younger and less skilful version of Vassell and Owen.

As for his qualities, Rooney has a good first touch, excellent vision, a range of passing, powerful shot, is physically strong, has good acceleration and a low centre of gravity. On the down side, he's not the tallest, has an anger problem, can get squeezed out by tight marking or when he is not given a free role, and as he is young and inexperienced he can be inconsistent, sometimes brilliant, sometimes poor. He's already a certainty in every England squad and there is a strong feeling that he should be used up front in Michael Owen as a first choice strike partnership. Nothing is certain in football, so who knows how far he can go or whether it will all fall apart, but for now he's an exciting player.

 

Keep the boy away from the prawn sandwiches and he'll be something special. He's not there yet.

 

On what evidence is Rooney the biggest talent in English football? A great game against Turkey, the minnows of Liechtenstein and coming on for Everton as a sub and scoring one ot two goals doesn't convince me that much. Defoe and J Cole are more naturally gifted players than Rooney and have done alot more for thier clubs to warrant an England squad place than Wayne. He's a good talent, but I'm backing Defoe to outshine him in the future. Rooney shouldn't even be in the England squad. Defoe, Owen, Smith, Vassell and Beattie are far more deserving and more accomplished than he currently is. Your just another victim to all the hype the media have been throwing around. He's really no big a talent than Glen Johnson of Chelski Moscow but because hes a striker and England have a shortage of top class players for his position people go silly. The hype machine is in over-drive I'm afraid and most people are too daft too see that.

 

You are bizarre. I'm not sure what issue you have with Rooney, but trying to say that Defoe has done more for West Ham than Rooney has for Everton, and that Rooney should not be in the England squad at all is frankly mental. Then to say that Defoe deserves a full England place more than Rooney just proves that you've never actually seen Defoe play.

You also list Rooney's achievements all of which he has accomplished at just 17, and his junior record, and then claim that doesn't prove him to be the most outstanding young talent. What more does a 17 year old need to do? Score hat tricks in every game? I've seen Rooney play at his best, and at his worst. No question that his current ability is good and his potential is even better.

I can't work out whether you're either a sockpuppet troll, or some Liverpool fan with a stupid grievance and chip on their shoulder. As for your comparison with Glenn Johnson, no-one doubts he's a good prospect, but he's barely past double figures of games as a pro and hasn't even established himself as a top player in the U-21's (for whom he was red carded last night btw).

As for Joe Cole, he has skills but despite being a lot older than Rooney and having more opportunities to impress, he just hasn't done it to the same level. Not even with the U-21s. There's no doubt Rooney has a lot of hype which should be lessened, but he fully deserves the praise he has received.

 

You are bizarre. I'm not sure what issue you have with Rooney, but trying to say that Defoe has done more for West Ham than Rooney has for Everton, and that Rooney should not be in the England squad at all is frankly mental. Then to say that Defoe deserves a full England place more than Rooney just proves that you've never actually seen Defoe play.
I have nothing against Rooney, I'll be the first to admit hes an impressive youngster and I want him to prove me wrong as an England fan. I've probably seen Defoe and Rooney play alot more than what you have and I'd take Defoe over him every time AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME as he has far more experience and has done alot more for his club than Rooney currently has. All you've done is say I'm mental for thinking Rooney shouldn't be in the England squad and give no reason as to why.
So far from what I've seen Rooney has broken into a mediocre premiership club first team squad which hardly has the likes of Henry or RVN in it, be a bench warmer for most of the time and score one or two goals. Seriously are you trying to tell me that warrants an England place? Admittedly we aren't as blessed as we used to be for strikers, but the other strikers I've mentioned have done more than what Rooney has at the moment and have alot more to contribute. Rooney should be in the under 21's IMO. He's looked out of his depth at international games bar 2 games vs an offguard Turkey and the minnows of Liectenstein. The ball just bounces off him most of the time. He was awful against Macedonia bar the goal. Credit to him he looked alot better when we was played behind Heskey and Owen. His goal should have been saved though.

You also list Rooney's achievements all of which he has accomplished at just 17, and his junior record, and then claim that doesn't prove him to be the most outstanding young talent. What more does a 17 year old need to do? Score hat tricks in every game? I've seen Rooney play at his best, and at his worst. No question that his current ability is good and his potential is even better.

I listed Rooneys achievements because they are great, that doesn't mean he should currently be in the senior squad just because he made a bunch of other kids look foolish. If you think Rooneys current achievements warrants England caps than you have low standards. I've seen the likes of Andy Cole score 30 goals a season for Manure a couple of years ago, win Premierships, Champions Leagues, FA Cups and establish himself in one of the very best club teams in the world and he could barely get in the squad never mind the first 11. Rooney at this moment in time pales in comparison and no I won't give the kid a break, you and ppl like you want him to be playing at the very highest level off the game, I demand more from an England player than to be a bit part player for Everton despite how good a talent he is.


I can't work out whether you're either a sockpuppet troll, or some Liverpool fan with a stupid grievance and chip on their shoulder. As for your comparison with Glenn Johnson, no-one doubts he's a good prospect, but he's barely past double figures of games as a pro and hasn't even established himself as a top player in the U-21's (for whom he was red carded last night btw).

1 red card doesn't make him any less of a player and Rooney himself isn't exactly an angel on a football pitch himself. Also I'm not a liverpool fan for your information. Glen Johnson has broken into a squad of world stars and played alot more for Chelski and West Ham than Rooney has for Everton. England are well covered in his position though so his opportunities are going to be very limited for the time being, all Rooney has to compete with is the awful Heskey. Sven doesn't realize currently Smith and Beattie are FAAAAAR more experienced and would do better jobs than the Everton bench warmer. Do you honestly believe Rooney is gonna shine in an England shirt if we qualify for Euro 2004 and have to play against the likes of Italy who have the liks of Nesta and Cannavaro? I think not...

As for Joe Cole, he has skills but despite being a lot older than Rooney and having more opportunities to impress, he just hasn't done it to the same level. Not even with the U-21s.
Joe Cole alot more opportunities to impress? On what stage exactly? I hope you're not talking about international level because 15 minutes here and there in the second half of a game in a totally changed team doesn't even compare to what Rooney has had so far. If you talking about impressing at premier league level, he impressed enough to be a West Ham regular and for Chelski Moscow to buy him for 6 million. Plus Joe Cole has Scholes and Dyer infront of him at international level. The fact of the matter is if Rooney played for a team like Chelski the words Rooney and England wouldn't even be said in the same sentence.

There's no doubt Rooney has a lot of hype which should be lessened, but he fully deserves the praise he has received. Exactly hes over-hyped like I already said before, but saying he should be an England international for his current achievements is complete nonesense.

 

I'd take Defoe over him every time AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME as he has far more experience and has done alot more for his club than Rooney currently has. What the **** is this? Defoe did not feature in as many premiership games as Rooney last season and certainly didn't produce anything of note in a West Ham team that was miserably relegated. He's had one decent performance this season in division 1 when he scored a hat trick against some puny team, but even the most ardent West Ham fan would not be stupid enough to take him over Rooney. Defoe has accomplished nothing for West Ham except relegation and a mindless transfer request 24 hours later. He does not have more experience than Rooney, and I think his non-participation in the England squad is some clue that everybody recognises that he is not as bright or as useful a prospect. Defoe is not even the number one striker for the U-21's. Even Ameobi and Jeffers are more favoured by that arch-plonker Platt than Defoe.

So far from what I've seen Rooney has broken into a mediocre premiership club first team squadMediocre? Everton were top 6 for virtually all of last season and only slipped out in the final few weeks and yet still finished in the top half of the table. Even now it is clear they will finish at least midtable this season, not Champions League but 'mediocre' is a stupid statement. I'd say getting involved with them at 16 and now 17 is a lot better than playing Divison 1 football with West Ham or getting hammered every week with Leeds. But I suppose obviously not in your universe. The only reason Rooney has not been involved more this season was to give him a rest as he played more games than he was supposed to last season.

Rooney should be in the under 21's IMO. He's looked out of his depth at international games bar 2 games vs an offguard Turkey and the minnows of Liectenstein.
Because he's played in so many, eh? He's shown touches of class in all his few games (of which only Turkey,Lichtenstein, Slovakia and Macedonia were competitive). The only games where he's been below par were Slovakia at home and the first 60 or so minutes against Macedonia where even then he was still better than a number of his team mates - i.e. Frank Lampard - and did nothing atrocious, no missed sitters or loose giveaways in dangerous areas. The Turkey and Lichtenstein games are the only other two he's actually started, so you're a bit stupid for trying to point them out as his "only" good performances. You do realise he doesn't have 50 caps and isn't in his late 20's right? Do you know how long it took Michael Owen to score his first goal and the quality of the opposition he did it against? Do you know how many inconsistent games he had before he clicked into consistent top performance at International level? Even now he's not above average in every game, same with Beckham and even people like Gerrard and Butt. Rooney has adapted much quicker than them.

I listed Rooneys achievements because they are great
You should read your own posts mate. So at 17 someone has great achievements, and yet you're not willing to give him any chances to improve on them? You criticise Rooney for not having the experience of other players, well if someone isn't played at International level, then they're not going to get any experience are they?

that doesn't mean he should currently be in the senior squad just because he made a bunch of other kids look foolish.
Kids? The Turkish team was full of kids? The Arsenal team last season was full of kids? The Macedonian team this year was full of kids?

If you think Rooneys current achievements warrants England caps than you have low standards. I've seen the likes of Andy Cole score 30 goals a season for Manure a couple of years ago, win Premierships, Champions Leagues, FA Cups and establish himself in one of the very best club teams in the world and he could barely get in the squad never mind the first 11.
Do you know why he couldn't get in the first XI? Because Andy Cole couldn't cut it at International level, any England fan knows this from having witnessed it at first hand. He didn't have the cutting edge or the mental strength or desire even in his best ManYoo season. Now I know you're a troll, no sensible person would dare to use Andy Cole in an England discussion. BTW Man Utd won only on Champions league trophy, so the plural is a bit ridiculous.

Furthermore you get picked to a team for ability, no-one except a clueless maniac picks a team based purely on 'achievements'. What American logic. On your basis Casillas would never have played for Real Madrid and Barthez would be the best goalkeeper in the world. Rooney has ability in bucketloads, just ask any of the England players, Sven, David Moyes, Arsene Wenger and every scout whose watched him since his childhood days. But no, clearly you know better than all of them, eh? In your universe for the past three years England should have had a front pairing of Andy Cole and Chris Sutton

Rooney at this moment in time pales in comparison and no I won't give the kid a break, you and ppl like you want him to be playing at the very highest level off the game, I demand more from an England player than to be a bit part player for Everton despite how good a talent he is.
LOL "give the kid a break", yeah you really sound like an England fan now mate. Oh and you think Rooney pales in comparison to Andy Cole.... wow you're a football genius. Ever thought of applying for the Scotland job when McVogts gets the sack?

Also I'm not a liverpool fan for your information. Glen Johnson has broken into a squad of world stars and played alot more for Chelski and West Ham than Rooney has for Everton.
First of all, no he hasn't. Second of all Mario Melchiot may have something to say about this. Thirdly, we only have Gary "Arthur Scargill" Neville and Danny "Leeds Reject" Mills at right back. So saying there is more competition at right back than for the second striker position alongside Owen is a load of rubbish.

Do you honestly believe Rooney is gonna shine in an England shirt if we qualify for Euro 2004 and have to play against the likes of Italy who have the liks of Nesta and Cannavaro? I think not...
Of course he will, certainly a lot more so than the likes of Smith and Beattie. BTW "gonna", "bench warmer" and "for your information" - what kind of language is this? It's pretty clear you're not English mate, stop wasting our time.

he impressed enough to be a West Ham regular and for Chelski Moscow to buy him for 6 million. Plus Joe Cole has Scholes and Dyer infront of him at international level. The fact of the matter is if Rooney played for a team like Chelski the words Rooney and England wouldn't even be said in the same sentence.
Yeah, what an effort it took to be a West Ham regular, along with those other legends Tomas Repka and Steve Lomas. Well now you're really showing your ignorance because everyone also knows Chelsea wanted to bid for Rooney this summer and have him on the shopping list for a figure which dwarfs 6 million.

I'm sick of you sock puppet trolls wandering into this forum to piss about. Go back to the USA Soccer forum and chat on about Freddy Adu if you want to post bollocks. Your posts have betrayed you mate, too many Yank phrases and inaccurate net gossip to be English. It was a weak try and you've been found out, now sod off.

 

M1ke, it's obvious that you have something against Rooney, did he nick your bird or something? You are just a jealous liverpool fan, or Tranmere for that matter.

You'd rather Sven pick a first division striker over a Premiership striker....You honestly think Defore is better than Rooney? When Rooney gets the ball people stand up, how many players in the England team can make people in the stadium stand up? Just think about that....they must stand up for a reason and it's not because they hate Man United.

But the more important thing is that SVEN knows more than you. He's seen all the other England strikers play in person and he's decided to himself that except Owen, Rooney is the best.

Man of the match against Turkey, youngest ever England goalscorer. He might be only 17 but he plays as if he's got more experience than Beattie or Defoe. You talk about Andy Cole deserving a place in the England team, true he did, but when he was in the England team he never performed, something Rooney has done.

 

i don't know where to start with this one...

in my opinion, rooney is by FAR the most exciting young prospect in the english game. he's quick, skillful, strong, has a great first touch, superb vision; but above all else he has the unique talent of doing the unexpected and changing a game in an instant. he has the ability to pick out a killer ball, brush off the challenges of international players 10 years his senior or curl the ball into the net from 25 yards. he's light years ahead of defoe and cole.

why do you think the normally cautious Sven has played Rooney, even at the tender age of 17. the answer is he's had no choice...noone could see that lad's ability and plump for Heskey or Beattie instead (or Vassell or Smith or whoever else you care to mention).

this is what his inclusion is based on...ability. so what if he's "only" playing for everton? so what if he hasn't won a major trophy? so what if he lacks experience? players are picked for what they can offer...not for what they have achieved in their careers up until that point.

since rooney has made the step-up to international-level, he has been an absolute revelation, and noone, with perhaps the exception of beckham, has played more impressively in that period.

how you can say he shouldn't even be in the squad is laughable. thank god you're not england manager, m1ke...you probably thought Owen wasn't ready in 1998 right?

 

Don't give him that argument, Defoe plays for WEST fukin HAM, Vassel plays for Villa, Smith plays for Leeds, Beattie plays for Southampton. All finished lower than Everton last season and all worse teams.

M1ke is the type of poster that makes a point but is a hypocrite in the process.

i.e
"So far from what I've seen Rooney has broken into a mediocre premiership club first team squad"

Everton a team that was hoping to qualify for the champs league thanks to Wayne Rooney last season but sadly ended by losing the last few games of the season. A team that now has seven strikers "Jeffers, Campbell, Ferguson, Radzinski, Chadwick, McFaddon and Rooney".

Then he goes on to mention other England players that play for worse teams than Everton.

 

I've said what I've wanted to say about Rooney. If i carry on I'd be repeating myself. If you think what Rooney has achieved so far warrants and England squad place you have low standards. He's a good talent this I've never questioned, but there are better. IMO anyway. For the record I AM ENGLISH and will be cheering on England and if he plays I'll be cheering on Rooney aswell.

 

everyone seems to have gone to great lengths to argue that he hasn't been selected for what he has achieved, but for what he could..

i know he's achieved nothing...and i'm saying i don't care.

 

I think he will be a forward, I would say he is first choice forward, Owen is first choice striker...

 

By striker, that is a goalscorer, someone who usually sits on the shoulder of the last defender and is the most forward person in the team. They don't really create (although they do often get assists), instead they look to score and be in and around the penalty box hunting for chances and finishing things off.

By forward, he means an attacking player who is expected to get forward and score goals, but who usually sits just behind a striker, dropping off the central defenders and acts more as a link man between the striker(s) and the midfielders, not so much a penalty box poacher.

Strikers = Michael Owen, Ruud Van N, Pippo Inzaghi etc..

Forwards = Rooney, Totti, Bergkamp etc...

 

Re: Very nice...

Owen is only 23 you know. He's been the England number one striker since he was 20 (When Alan Shearer decided to retire from International football at just 29). Owen scored "that" goal against Argentina at just 18 years of age. Rooney is hyped to be a better than Owen, and when Rooney is 23, he will have six years of Interntional experience and could be the most important England player. Svens planning for the future, despite what the scum English (london based) media say.

 

Well, although a forward can create, really they score as well. It's role which combines both. It's not the same as an attacking midfielder/playmaker, which is more solely creative.

Rooney is the second best forward behind Owen in terms of natural ability. Because of his age he's not the finished article by any means, but he lifts the other players around him not only through his play but in their belief in his talent. That's a big plus. Also he offers something different to the other potential Owen partners in that he is strong, but also fast and skilful, can offer a goal threat but also play from deep. Adds a lot more unpredictability to the attack.

Vassel and Kevin Phillips are too similar in style to Owen to play as a front partner, Kieron Dyer is excellent but would really need to be paired with someone more physical / a centre forward, Beattie is a possible Owen partner but perhaps too much of a static centre forward, while Heskey doesn't offer enough of a goal threat.

Using young players is no problem when they're exceptional, if anything it's essential to keep a team fresh and positive. If a team sticks to the same group of players year after year then they run the risk of going stale, even if those are technically the most polished players. A sucessful team should always be moving forward.

 

i think in terms of natural ability he's actually superior to owen..

he mightn't be the complete article yet but hopefully that will come.

 

I agree, I'm not sure why I went the other way in my original post.

Rooney has pace, power and great technique. He's also a very good goalscorer considering how he likes to play as the second forward.

I'm not sure how Michael Owen is taking being supplanted as the golden boy.

 

not too well, it would seem...

He said: “Wayne has done really well since he has come in and is so confident.

“He has all the attributes and I am sure he’ll play many times for England.

“He scores goals but I don’t think he is an out-and-out goalscorer. I think he is a cross between myself and Emile. He scores more than Emile but probably doesn’t link up as well as he does."

“We saw in the last game against Liechtenstein what he can do in the withdrawn role. Although the opposition were not the best, he did really well.”


every compliment he makes seems to be through gritted teeth.

 

I have an odd feeling that Owen loves playing up with Heskey so much because he knows Emile is never going to steal any of his glory. The lump will also always look to pass even when he could take it on himself, which is what Rooney would do.