Was Maradona Overrated

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Lincon18762, Dec 12, 2022.

  1. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy

    Carioca started being depleted after WC82, not in the times of prime Zico. Then, the only top brazilian player who had signed a contract abroad was Falcao (Dirceu also in Spain, but he was past his prime). There was even an unwritten rule, preventing players leaving brasilian club football from being NT capped, putting in place a kind of football protectionism (it was Santana to break this rule exactly in spring of 82 summoning the two aforementioned). Not only Falmengo but also Vasco, Fluminense and Botafogo were top european league worthy teams, and occasionaly even other teams (Bangu). All in all Carioca in 1980 was likely as tough as serie A.
     
  2. Prasenjit

    Prasenjit Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 25, 2025
    Italian serie a?
     
  3. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    In 1980 sure. In 1980 serie A allowed teams to sign foreign players, but the first wave names were not much impressive (bar Falcao). It was after WC82 that started to be the most talent-enriched of the world.
     
  4. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1079 carlito86, Sep 18, 2025
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2025
    It was after World Cup 1990 (or even Euro 1992) that it became the best league in the world and it held that position uncontested until World Cup 1998 (after which La Liga and then the premier league came into the frame)


    1980s Serie A is the biggest myth since El Dorado.


    No league on earth not even the Premier League, with its billions of pounds spent on transfers and wages for foreign players can stay the best in the world for 10, let alone 15–20 years.

    Football ebbs and flows and this story of 1980s Serie A dominating world football for 10+ years belongs in a Marvel comic book.
     
  5. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Maradona Serie A 1989/90 Title

    Games: 27
    Goals: 16 (7 PK, 2 FK, 1 hdr)
    Assists: 14 (Opta)
    Assists: 1 (Non-Opta)
    Pre-Assists: 3 (Opta)
    Pre-Assists: 2 (Non-Opta)
    G+A* p90: 1.414

    Team Contribution 36/45: 80%
    Clutch Contribution 22/28: 78.6%

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Isaías Silva Serafim repped this.
  7. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Cool so Maradona's teammates scored few goals in which he weren't involved in
     
  8. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Never mention "non penalty goals" or "non set piece assists" when the topic is Maradona bro. Especially on Trachta's thread. It only applies to Ronaldo.
     
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  9. ffff15

    ffff15 Member

    Argentina
    Sep 29, 2021
    Haha, truly a set piece merchant statistically speaking.
     
  10. Prasenjit

    Prasenjit Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 25, 2025
    Does not matter in any way.taking set pieces are not easy skills unless perhaps penalties.ofcourse losers and low intelligence keyboard warriors think otherwise.some of the penalty goals too are won or helped winning by the scorer himself( in this case maradona).pls find that stats too.he contributed to a few penalties won in this 89-90 season.also there are 14+1=15 assists not 11 I suppose.
     
  11. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    It's easier than open play assists of course. Players like Kroos and Kimmich get a lot of assists from corners or free kicks. The same way it's fair to remove penalties when evaluating the open play goalscoring ability of some players the same way it's fair to remove set pieces assists when evaluating the open play playmaking ability of some players
     
  12. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    Clearly, if you are the one entitled to take each and every free-kick... Also merit for scoring from a corner assist is almost always down to goalscorer, to its ability to steal the time to the defender. So I agree removing free kick assosts is probably more meaningful than including.
     
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  13. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yeah and if you remove Maradona's stet pieces goals and assists only a mediocre goalscorer and playmaker remains lol even relative to his own era
     
  14. Prasenjit

    Prasenjit Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 25, 2025
    Absolutely not.maradona haters are stooping so low recently that it's gone even beneath them.bad logics, childish conclusions...only motto is demeaning maradona.Corners and freekicks are nice arts in football and not like penalties.children would realize so quite easily.
    If they are easier than open play assists,you can prove by finding the stat of maradona's all assists.maybe Trachta is the best man for it.then we'll see if diego has more deadball assists than otherwise.
     
  15. Prasenjit

    Prasenjit Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 25, 2025
    To be entitled to take all the deadballs,you have to be the very best in them.way better than any other in his team at least.
     
  16. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    He was. It would be silly and obtuse to state the opposite. Only haters would, and I am not at all. I put Maradona in second place (tie with Platini) in my best of the 80s list.
     
  17. Prasenjit

    Prasenjit Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 25, 2025
    Maradona and platini are ahead of Zico in international achievements.
     
  18. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #1093 carlito86, Sep 21, 2025
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2025
    According to this compilation, Diego Maradona registered 76 assists during his time at Napoli.




    This tally is also corroborated by transfermarket
    Diego Maradona - Detailed stats (Detailed view) | Transfermarkt

    Diego Maradona’s set piece assists at Napoli

    At minute 0:58
    At minute 1:02
    At minute 1:13
    At minute 1:18
    At minute 1:22
    At minute 1:37
    At minute 1:54
    At minute 2:03
    At minute 2:17
    At minute 2:26
    At minute 2:39
    At minute 2:42
    At minute 3:48
    At minute 3:53
    At minute 4:02
    At minute 5:29
    At minute 5:34
    At minute 5:48
    At minute 6:09
    At minute 6:13
    At minute 6:21
    At minute 6:31
    At minute 6:51



    30% of his assists at Napoli came about directly from set piece situations(23 out of 76)


    ————————


    Diego Maradona Scored 115 goals for Napoli


    According to this comp Diego Maradona scored roughly 30 freekicks for Napoli

    Check minute 3:02 to minute 7:20


    Maradona also scored 41 penalties for Napoli
    Diego Maradona - All goals | Transfermarkt


    61.7% of his total goals for Napoli came about from set piece situations(71 out of 115)



    So to answer your question

    Maradona scored 115 goals and 76 assists for Napoli totalling 191 direct goal contributions / GA

    49.2% of his direct goal contributions came about via set pieces(94 out of 191)

    23 Set piece assists
    30~ freekicks
    41
    penalties

    So it would not be an exaggeration to say that Diego Maradona without set pieces was literally diminished by half at Napoli.

    This is not a small detail to gloss over and Lionel Messi at Barcelona or Cristiano Ronaldo at Real Madrid were nowhere near to having almost 50% of their G/A coming from set pieces
     
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  19. Prasenjit

    Prasenjit Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 25, 2025
    @carlito,thanks for the stats.didn't ask for that much but I have got what I needed.i wanted proof of deadball assists being easier than open play ones.but here we see M10 has more open play assists than otherwise,in napoli atleast and i guess in his career too.so no proof so far and absolutely no reason they can be omitted from one's stats.
     
  20. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    That is what transfermarket says
    Screenshot_2025-09-21-20-23-24-763.jpeg
     
  21. Prasenjit

    Prasenjit Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Aug 25, 2025
    And of course no sane soccer fan would think of omitting free kick goals
    And ofcourse no sane soccer fan would omitt free kick goals believing they are easy.
     
  22. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    #1097 Frank73, Sep 21, 2025
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2025
    And here you are with Le Roi Soleil Michel
    Screenshot_2025-09-21-20-39-40-861.jpeg

    Considering serie A only, it is very very close
    In Europa, Platini rules.
     
  23. babaorum

    babaorum Member+

    Aug 20, 2005
    Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    The assist figure in Ligue 1 is laughable.
     
  24. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think it’s silly to think about it that way, for reasons I’ve explained and that you refuse to read. Others can read what I’ve written and decide for themselves. But, at the very least, if you want to think about it that way, then you’d need to acknowledge that set-piece assists are by definition lower difficulty than open-play assists. The ball is stationary, the taker has time to look up, and the whole attacking side is positioned to exploit the delivery. It’s nonsensical to act as if acknowledging this somehow “demeans” a player, when in reality it’s just about properly separating skill types. Just like with penalties versus open-play goals, recognizing that set-piece assists are a different and easier category doesn’t erase the artistry of a great free-kick or corner. It simply makes the evaluation of open-play chance creation more accurate.
     
  25. Frank73

    Frank73 Member

    Inter Milan
    Brazil
    Mar 22, 2025
    Italy
    Lack of data for sure. Site is italian. For Zico at Flamengo they do not have numbers at all. But for the numbers regarding matches played in Italy and in european cups they should be very reliable.
     

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