Was Maradona Overrated

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Lincon18762, Dec 12, 2022.

  1. Praasen

    Praasen Member

    Mohun bagan
    Argentina
    Jan 8, 2023
    If they are so easy to find,please post here about 100 odd johan cruyff assists.good luck.
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  2. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    as the Topic here is about Diego Armando Maradona ..


    i'll show you One Assist (Opta) Cruyff and one Assist Maradona (Opta and Non_opta )










    Johan Cruyff 1 Opta ...Free-Kick Passing






    and













    Maradona 1 Opta ..Low Crosses and 1 Pre_assist Opta ...Long range Ball ...


    Copa del Rey Final 1983
     
  3. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #928 carlito86, Jan 20, 2025
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2025
    Im not sure if many people here have seen this one


    Now to my knowledge there exists two videos of Cruyff registering 3 assists in one match
    This and the one vs Feyenoord 1974/75(same season)

    It’s good this video exists because transfermarket literally awards him 0 assists for this match
    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-barcelona_sk-voest-linz/index/spielbericht/1168857

    So for the record Johan Cruyff produced 0 goals and 7 assists in 8 EC matches in 1974/75
    His team scored 15 goals so he was directly involved in 46.6%. of his teams goals.

     
  4. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024








    cruyff 1 Opta Assist ... with left foot and 1 Pre_assist Opta with left foot .




    and










    2 Opta Assists Diego
     
  5. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024







    Cruyff 1 Opta Free-Kick taking to Ruud Gullit ...



    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt0obz




    3 Opta Assists

    1 Passing deeper
    1 Outside curve of foot " trivela " quaresma passing ..
    1 Free-Kick taking ... to Houtman ...










    Maradona 1 Opta Assist

    Maradona 1 Pre-assist Opta ...

    against West Germany final
     
  6. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    i like it

    this match on the snow ...

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt0obz


    Quaresma Passing Trivela ...onthe Snow

    is pretty amazing ..
     
  7. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    yes Helmond Sport 3 Opta Assists as well .
     
  8. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
  9. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024






    Go to 25 : 00 minutes at Video

    Cruyff 2 Opta Assists ...against Nec 1971-1972


    1 crossing left foot

    1 shorter pass with right foot ..


     
    Praasen repped this.
  10. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Responding to your question: I don't think the players from 60s were twice as good as the players from 80s. But this isn't the goal contribution percent that tells me. It only serves to show how dependant the team was on a given player to score or assist. Only this. You are the one who's not addressing to the point I made of various players having different goal contribution percent playing with players of different quality. You gave only an answer of appeal to populism which is a fallacy and doesn't address to the point I made.
     
  11. Loco

    Loco Member+

    River Plate
    Argentina
    May 1, 2005
    Miami
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    HA HA HA HA; this proves how little you know about Maradona. YOU KNOW NOTHING OTHER THAN COPYING AND PASTING FROM YOUR GOOGLE SEARCHES!!!

    This is a quote from 1928 my man. It was written the El Grafico, regarding what does it mean to be a Pibe who is the modern day Gaucho. And the reason why this 1928 quote is so interesting, its because they basically predicts the coming of a player like Diego almost 50 years before it happened.

    HOW DID YOU NOT KNOW THAT?? ohh, .that's right, I just read your previous posts. . . I know why
     
  12. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Look, I’m not saying I’ve discovered the absolute truth, but rather that I’m one step closer to the truth, and I can prove it with a very basic reasoning.

    Let’s start with the premise that Messi is the same player playing for Eibar as he is for Barcelona—in other words, he is just as good a player at Eibar as he is at Barcelona.
    Let’s consider this as an absolute truth.

    What would the perfect indicator be?
    The perfect indicator would be one that can perfectly adapt to the context and tell me how good a player is, regardless of where they play. In other words, if a 'rating' told me that Messi is, for example, a 9.7 while playing for Eibar and a 9.7 while playing for Barcelona, then you would be looking at the perfect indicator because it would perfectly reflect how good the player is purely and independently of their context.

    What’s my point? My point is that if you looked at the raw G+A numbers for the player, Messi would have double or triple the G+A average at Barcelona compared to Eibar. That means it’s something very far from reflecting reality because that number is almost entirely determined by the context. However, if you use the contribution percentage, it’s true that it will probably be higher at Eibar than at Barcelona, but the difference between the two percentages isn’t as large as the difference between the raw G+A numbers.
    This means that the contribution percentage is getting closer to adapting to the context, as it gives me two values that are closer to each other.

    The perfect indicator would be one that shows Messi is the same player whether he’s playing for Eibar or Barcelona.
     
  13. Praasen

    Praasen Member

    Mohun bagan
    Argentina
    Jan 8, 2023
    Antonio rattin : pele
    Rumenigge: maradona
    Lineker: maradona
    Gullit : maradona
    Daniel pasarella : pele
    Cannigia : maradona
    Burruchaga.: maradona
    Kempes : maradona
    Sergio goecochea : maradona
     
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  14. Trachta10

    Trachta10 Member+

    Apr 25, 2016
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    No, what you’re saying doesn’t hold up to any serious analysis, and you know it. And I’m speaking in plural terms—the best players of the '80s and '60s—not specifically Maradona vs. Pelé. The players from the '60s double the G+A average of the best players from the '80s, and that doesn’t reflect reality or the players’ abilities at all. You should know this. Here’s an example of players from the '80s and '90s.

    [​IMG]

    You can literally see how the team goal average is around 1.7—very similar contexts.
    You have Van Basten, who was probably the best scorer of his generation, with an average of just 0.473 non-penalty goals at Milan. I repeat, the best scorer in the world of his generation.

    Players like Puskás more than double the G+A average of Baggio, just to give an example. If you think Puskás was twice the player Baggio was, then you understand nothing.
     
  15. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    Puskas 1000x times better than Baggio ..


    Behaviour in Big Finals ..


    Puskas : 1, 92 %
    Baggio : 0, 38 %


    Michel Platini...


    Assists are Wrong at all .. ==== 79 Assists


    PLatini has much more Pre_assists ...than others


    you are comparing Attackers

    with

    the Regista PLatini midfielder ..
     
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  16. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    For me sounds that you don't view any whole game Of Ferenc Puskas as simple as that .


    Poor vision at all !
     
    carlito86 repped this.
  17. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    Gullit spoken that He didn't saw any whole game Of Pelé ....

    that Maradona He saw to play live
     
  18. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024























    you need to see much more whole Games for sure ... Of other Players also ..


    taking it Off Messi and Maradona only ..
     
  19. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    with Due All respect from you dear mate ....is very very obsessed with Messi and Maradona only



    please Open Mind always ... and to think twice before to talk about Older Players ..


    because I saw really so many many whole matches from them in my entire life .
     
  20. Isaías Silva Serafim

    Real Madrid
    Brazil
    Dec 2, 2021
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I understand that but still this cannot be used as an indicator that one player is better than another for the reasons I already mentioned. The purpose of this statistic is not to say that one player is better than another. It's about saying how dependent the team was on that player to score or assist. Nothing more, nothing less. A player can have a higher goal contribution percentage than another and still be an inferior player.
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  21. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    But ..


    How do you evaluate then in a fair way ??


    There is no such thing as analyzing players
    without metrics





    Defensive Metrics

    Interceptions
    Tackles Won
    Duels Won
    Defensive Covers
    Defensive Blocks
    Def Headers Won
    Distance Covered
    Defending Set Pieces
    Yellow Cards
    Red Cards


    Playmaking Metrics



    Key-Passes
    Big Chances Created
    Pre Key-Passes
    Long Range Balls accuracy %
    Crossing accuracy %
    Passing accuracy %
    Dictates Tempo
    Atk Headers Won %
    Pre-Assists
    Ball Possession



    Offensive Metrics


    Goals
    Assists
    Shots on Target ratio %
    Dribbles completed per 90 minutes
    Attacking Set Pieces
    Attacking Movements " Underlapping and overlapping movements ..




    [​IMG]


    Comparison Methods :



    OverView
    Personal or Individual Attributes

    Statistics
    Positions and Roles "
    " versatility "


    Reports



    you suggests what to compare Players so ????



    https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/topic/574713-how-to-compare-players-well/
     
  22. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ..
    ..
    My King ...


    [​IMG]
     
  23. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    yes ... I saw this also the interviews Of all ... It's Real at all ...
     
  24. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    What's your own Method to compare Players right now ????
     
  25. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3uebz6




    there's alot Of Assists ..Johan Cruyff ...PuckVanHeel videos ..from USA ..





     

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