Was Maradona Overrated

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Lincon18762, Dec 12, 2022.

  1. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    A 15 minute walk from my place.

    https://corporate.sofascore.com/about

    It says they have top-tier data providers.. but i think it is not opta. Maybe statsbomb? Squawka? I dont know who collects data and who could it be
     
  2. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Ah, ok, you do have some queries about certain stats too.

    Maybe it can be just that Opta/Sofascore calculate the raw data and don't require certain actions to be very good (eg key passes include any pass that precedes a shot - maybe when you say key decisive passes you mean something that really created a good opening where it didn't exist before the pass?). Passing and crossing accuracy is calculated separately though I know. I don't know exactly how 'duels' are worked out to be honest, but maybe it has a wider scope than you would define for duels as you would see that word applied to the action in a game (maybe it includes escaping from a defender, doing a dummy that isn't a dribble but makes some space for a player to escape another player and suchlike - these are general examples not what I remember Ronaldinho doing in this game by the way).
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  3. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    But to errors ... in big chances created ... is grave for me ... !
     
  4. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I had the impression from somewhere it was Opta I thought (unless I was assuming so because we believed WhoScored use Opta and Opta had originally made the old World Cup data years ago). Maybe @comme has a bit more insight and information on that. Potentially a few of us assumed it was Opta data erroneously though I guess (or it could be you just didn't think it was but it is I suppose on the other hand?).
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  5. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024





    [​IMG]
    Ronaldinho


    Nota Sofascore
    Receber notificações para esse jogador
    6.6k seguidores
    Brazil 0 - 1 France
    1 de jul. de 06

    Minutos jogados
    90'
    Gols
    0
    Assistências
    0
    Finalizações no gol
    0
    Finalizações para fora
    1
    Finalizações bloqueadas
    0
    Dribles (certos)
    3 (2)
    Ações com a bola
    47
    Passes certos
    22/27 (81%)
    Passes decisivos
    3
    Cruzamentos (certos)
    6 (2)
    Bolas longas (totais)
    3 (2)
    Duelos no chão (ganhos)
    11 (5)
    Duelos aéreos (ganhos)
    2 (0)
    Perda da posse de bola
    14
    Faltas
    1
    Faltas sofridas
    2
    Impedimentos
    1
    Cortes
    0
    Chutes bloqueados
    0
    Interceptações
    0
    Desarmes
    1
    Dribles sofridos
     
  6. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    .....the narrator of this match said it in loud and very clear English




    Brazilian National team side
    in 70 minutes played.. he hasn't attempted a single shot in the entire match so far.




    later ...or then of this ..


    happening it on this match...

    later ... of this ...


    had ... one plays .... between Robinho ... and Ronaldo Nazario



    later one free kick ... Ronaldinho Gaucho Shot Off the Target


    later ... Ronaldinho Gaucho key decisive pass to Robinho ( heading accuracy ) Robinho Shot Off The Target with left foot ...


    later Robinho pass to Ronaldo Nazario ... almost a goal for Brazil ...


    where that Ronaldinho Gaucho ..

    has 3 key decisive passes on this match ???



    tackling ... ghosts there ????
     
  7. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I havent really thought about it. I used think it was opta, but then i saw some inconsistencies (cant remember which) then from that point on assumed it was not opta, or solely opta..

    Oh i might know.. They have non-opta xG model.. or they do have opta model, but others dont. Not sure. But this is where i saw differences between different orgabizations

    Also they say multiple providers, so could it be that they pick and choose data from opta and others.. i dont know
     
    PDG1978 and Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I found this old BBC page from 2006 mate - maybe it helps, but I guess some 'shots' could be really negligible attempts at goal in theory....(and potentially there are enough shots registered that Ronaldinho made the pass before 3 of them (I believe he has 3 chances created/key passes credited, not 3 big chances created though by the way...and the old Opta World Cup data doesn't contain numbers of big chances created). It can be argued key passes is a flawed metric because it is quantitative not qualitative, but then again if they try to be more qualitative it becomes more subjective I suppose and open to different interpretations of which passes were the most key and highest quality etc...
    BBC SPORT | Football | World Cup 2006 | Brazil v France statistics
    Curiously the BBC seems to give one more shot to each team (11 Brazil, 13 France) compared to Sofascore/(Opta?) (10 Brazil, 12 France in the summary anyway)!
     
  9. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3garde





    other point ... was Ruud Gullit ... with 6. 6... against Rep of Ireland ...


    i saw ... ... errors ... also ... Headers Won ... only in the start of the match ,... Ruud Gullit ...


    had won 4 .... in the start



    d Gullit

    Nota Sofascore
    Receber notificações para esse jogador
    316 seguidores
    Ireland 0 - 1 Netherlands
    18 de jun. de 88
    Mapa de chutes
    Minutos jogados
    90'
    Gols
    0
    Assistências
    0
    Ações com a bola
    57
    Passes certos
    32/42 (76%)
    Passes decisivos
    2
    Cruzamentos (certos)
    3 (0)
    Bolas longas (totais)
    3 (2)
    Finalizações no gol
    0
    Finalizações para fora
    1
    Finalizações bloqueadas
    0
    Dribles (certos)
    2 (1)
    Duelos no chão (ganhos)
    7 (3)
    Duelos aéreos (ganhos)
    4 (3)
    Perda da posse de bola
    19
    Faltas
    0
    Faltas sofridas
    2
    Cortes
    1
    Chutes bloqueados
    0
    Interceptações
    0
    Desarmes
    0
    Dribles sofridos
    0
     
  10. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    Sofascore ;;; puts as Decisive passes !!! do you understanding me !
     
  11. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Yeah it might be the older World Cup (and Euros/Champions League? - those have big chances created though I think don't they, but potentially Opta made the data sets later?) was purchased from Opta but for recent games they don't interact with Opta. I'm not sure either though. They have their own distinct formula anyway of course, and maybe xG can be part of that i.e not prescribed by any other company as such (they don't show that for older World Cup data either of course)....

    Maybe for newer games they just collect their own data?
     
  12. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    is wrong too !
     
  13. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    come on ... to watch the game again and again ... wakes up man ! from this whole lie ..
     
  14. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024




    the narrator of the game the Englishman would lie Why??

    In fact... same

    Brazil... didn't have a shot on goal in 70 minutes...( i mean on Attempts )
     
  15. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    Gullit ... gave ... 3 key decisive passes ... at Least ....
     
  16. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    honestly ... SofaScore ...
    lost a lot of credibility with me

    don't see more anything on SofaScore ..
     
  17. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Formula is strictly theirs. That is for sure.. I also think there is a difference between data they use in a moment and one used retroactively like those for world cups. It could be just the level of depth.

    They dont say they collect data themselfs, which i think they would say if they did in a substantial amount. However, big chance data is something they were doing since 2016 and i didnt see it anywhere else like that so it could be that they add that interpretation.

    Also now that i think about it, the reason they say multiple data providers could be for a simple reason that they track many sports and probably opta doesnt do all of that.
     
    PDG1978 and Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  18. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    ...... Decisive passes ==== Equals ======== Decisive Goals !!!
     
  19. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    Is interesting at all .... what you said ... right now ..... honestly ... I prefer to watch the whole matches ...

    paying attenttion at maximum .... to analize the players correctly ....
     
  20. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024



    What's your own note to Ronaldinho Gaucho against France 2006 ??????


    for me honestly


    the worst player was Kaka Ricardo : 2 ....



    Ronaldinho ... 4.5 or 5.5 ... with good lovely feelings about him onthis match ...
     
  21. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    This one from the Guradian does align with Sofascore I see actually.

    One clear thing is that BBC/Guardian include blocked shots as 'on target' and Opta (and commentators) not I think (1 shot on target, and 3 shots inside box by Brazil on Sofascore data). Also note that while Zidane is praised, it is said that Ronaldinho had a disappointing game. Maybe sometimes a narrative can develop about key players, depending on result, but at other times whether incorrect or completely 'correct' the data can lead to an unrealistically good rating for particular players I would think (perhaps Ronaldinho in this game a good example, though I don't remember very clearly right now exactly his performance in the game):
    Henry swoops and Brazil stumble out | World Cup 2006 | The Guardian
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  22. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024
    ruud Gullit for me ... 6. 9 at least ... !
     
  23. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Like I say, I don't remember well enough right now, but I would at least say not especially good (in the match and the World Cup in general - I was previously a little surprised by his 2006 ratings in general with Sofascore, and I guess the key pass numbers are a main reason why he rates higher than might be expected - higher than 2002 with them - of course his sending off vs England perhaps cost him a very high grade in that particular 2002 game potentially though for example).
     
    Wiliam Felipe Gracek repped this.
  24. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024


    But key passes on this match ... ??? Where is this ??? ghost ..... decisive passes ...



    Goal is Goal ... is decisive too .....



    honestly even i don't consider the heading accuracy ... to Robinho ..as a big chance created



    only was a key pass ... on this match !!
     
  25. Wiliam Felipe Gracek

    Santos FC
    France
    Feb 3, 2024

    for example so ...

    Maradona 27 big chances created ... Pelé 28 big chances created .... Cruyff 36 big chances created




    has how many key passes around 1000 key passes so ?????
     

Share This Page