Will one of the Footy Phd's help me out on this one! It seemed to me that Vanney had more give aways than the 6th street homeless shelter in my town. If he plays like that aganist Costa Rica or El Tri in qualification we will die a slow painful death and Steve Sampson will dance on our graves. I didn't appreciate the way he just casually gave the ball up all day. He looked scared to be on the field. I pray he is not a serious option at leftback for qualification.
I'm surprised you haven't gotten more responses by now. Yes I for one would like for Vanney to take a seat next to Berhalter on the bench. He looked horrible all day long, not to mention dangerous passes and giveaways today. I'm not a fan and never will be, I think the french people have rubbed off on him.
Vanney is a frustrating player to me. He does show promise at times, but makes far too many mistakes and giveaways. Early in the game he looked like he may have a good outing and came forward nicely a couple of times and delivered at least one very good cross that I remember off hand. Then, he starts giving the ball away and made several glaring mistakes in the second half. Until he can learn to keep his composure for an entire game and to limit his mistakes, he will be a liability for the fact that if he's out there all game, he seems to always make at least a small number of crucial mistakes.
Faint Praise He's no worse than Berhalter or Hedjuk. We can win in CONCACAF w/ players like that, but against top notch programs, we'll be exposed consistently.
no, you're right. vanney wouldn't play for 90% of FIFA's top 50 countries. he shouldn't play for us, but since Bruce is a big "SYSTEM" guy and he somewhat fits into our system (or so I'm told) and Bruce feels comfortable with him, then you get why we keep seeing him game in and game out. i'm more amazed a suitable younger replacement hasn't stepped up yet. but then again, i don't know whether to blame the actual players themselves or the youth development system (which eventually finds its way back to Bruce)... so, anyway, i think he's horrible and should be nowhere near an international pitch...
It's not just you...Vanney was really bad yesterday. We took one of my husband's friends to the game with us (who doesn't follow soccer at all) and towards the end of the game he says "that #3 is really bad, isn't he?" Out of the mouths of babes. I just pray Wade Barrett comes back to the US Nats and that he hasn't lost a step.
Vanney ...YUCK Greg Vanney = Terrible defender Please put him beside berhalter where he belongs...playing everyone's favorite position left-out
As a neutral I thought Vanney was easily the worst player yesterday. His giveaways were awful. You could see he was frustrated with himself, but he kept doing it. Certainly against a better team those giveaways will be punished. He pushed up quite well and I remember one decent cross, but shouldn't be enough to keep him in the team. What other options are there in his position?
Vanney wasn't nearly as awful yesterday as Hejduk was at times, the thing with Frankie is that he has so much speed, his errors are often overlooked. Vanney is much more of a plodding player, and really should play centrally. Hopefully Bocanegra/Gibbs will force Vanney out of the starting eleven.......
Options? That's the problem. There are very few options at left back. We know that JOB can play there, but he is very valuable in other places too. Wade Barrett showed promise, but he is out of the picture, trying to earn a few minutes in the Danish league. I didn't like the Convey experiment. So where are we? Personally, I like playing in a 3-5-2, with some combination of Sanneh (when/if healthy), Pope (same), Bocanegra, Gibbs (he's coming along nicely, isn't he?) in the back. Then play guys like Lewis and Beasley on the wings to provide help both ways.
I think that Vanney had a stinker of a match and I've never been all that impressed with him as an international player. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that Bruce really likes his outside backs to push forward into the attack (one at a time), overloading one side. On Sunday, the left side was constantly overloaded and much of the U.S. attack came from that part of the field. I'd argue that Bruce's system is more of a 3-5-2 than a 4-4-2, only that the third defender is not always the same guy. I think David Regis had a fair amount of success in this system early in his tenure under Bruce, but was often blamed when he got pushed far forward in the attack and Agoos was the lone defender on the left side covering for him. Since Agoos is limited as far as speed and other factors, when a counterattack sprung down that side of the field, fingers were pointed at Regis for getting caught out of position, though all he was doing was acting out his role in the team and Agoos was unable to do his job in delaying the counter enough for the U.S. to get numbers back. Sanneh didn't get exposed so much on the right because often it was Pope covering for him when he pushed forward and the comparison between Agoos and Pope is a dramatic contrast. Now our central backs are quite inexperienced, so having the outside backs push forward continues to present some problems as the central backs aren't entirely familiar with their roles and how to best handle situations when the wing back gets caught up in the attack and the opponent counters.
I have to agree with most he was bad... On the International level he has not shown anything...bad decsion making is really hurting our backline... I thought Agoos was bad... man things just get worse... Hey dude needs to go to.. I would rather have Convey back there and JOB or maybe try some others out... How about Suarez from the burn... Our D has been the corner stone but the way we look in the back is real bad..... I don't feel good about going into WCQ like this...
I have never liked Vanney, and Sunday just confirmed my suspicions.....he sucks! I just hope and pray that Sanneh and Pope make speedy recoveries.
I have always liked Vanney since early days with Galaxy and have seem his stengths and weaknesses. But I continue to see contradictions. In this game I saw: Strengths: 1) Some great accurate long balls to a running player. Who else for US can do that so accurately from distance. 2) Some good & dangerous run forwards. 3) Some good corners, but not consistent. 4) Plays zonal defense well. Weaknesses: 1) A couple very, very,very bad Regis-like giveaways. Can kill you against good teams as Regis found out. 2) Seemed slow (almost jogging) getting back a number of times in dangerous situations. 3) Seems to play zone a bit to much. 4) A bit lackluster on man marking, such as the giveway he did. 5) Lack of confidence with the ball So as a defender he is not making it right now. Offensively, he does fine. He ain't no Roberto carlos, but Carlos also has a lot of defensive lapses. the questions is: Are we good enough to risk our defense for a player making these type of runs. That is up to Bruce Arna to decide. If Vanney shapes up his defense a bit, he wil do fine, but if not, he needs to go.
I've always hoped for good things from Vanney (and Berhalter, while we're at it)...his play before the world cup last year was solid but he was pretty bad yesterday. Hopefully they'll both start to show better.
Yes, Greg is terrible. He reminds me of a young Jeff Agoos without the saavy. Great left foot, but little to no athleticism and speed. He is not good enough to play consistently at the international level. After the Gold Cup, Bruce really needs to get Dunivant and Gbandi on the team. Both these players are very talented, all they need is the seasoning. The US has never had a left back that brings to the table what these two can do.
Re: Faint Praise ok ok, we're not Portugal, England or Germany but, we've been improving better than ever before....we're going there...
Playing time in Europe? I think Vanney possibly falls into the same boat as Eddie Lewis once did. He made the jump to Europe, and struggled for playing time there, so when he did come back to play for the National Team, he looked really bad. And I agree, Vanney was really terrible against Paraguay. I seem to recall that he was not playing a whole lot for Bastia, so that would certainly explain things. But if he had been getting regular minutes then I am sort of at a loss for why he play that poorly. I hope he can pull an Eddie Lewis and find a team that really suits him and allows him to develop and improve, I think he could be an answer at left-back, but not with the way he was playing on Sunday.
That's a really interesting theory -- and one I won't dispute per se. But that sort of implies that Bruce dropped Regis because of public pressure (being blamed for Goose's lapses). Which I don't buy, because one of the great qualities of Arena is that he's fairly immune to the relatively limited public pressure he faces. I've actually always thought Regis got a bad rap -- but then he just got too cavalier for my tastes and I spotted some lack of commitment to plays. I like the Eddie Lewis analogy of the previous poster. Vanney's definitely got skills but he's just as clearly playing poorly. I never thought Eddie Lewis would shake out of it (I vividly remember him not being able to cross a ball in US shirt to safe his life. And now . . .) so I think the jury's still out for Vanney. Which brings me to Frankie: There are folks here calling for his head. I have publicly sworn off such declarations because I vehemently called for a lifetime Hejduk ban from the national team for YEARS. And I do mean vehemently. I thought he was completey hopeless. And then came Korea. And Frankie played like a lion -- particularly against Portugal and Germany. Unbelievebly controlled performance -- at left back, by the way. One of Hejduk's biggest drawbacks has been his tendancy to just spazz out -- bad tackles (Costa Rica comes to mind), mindless forays upfield, that ridiculous stepover move that will never fool any U-6 player worth her salt and of course his delusion that he can shoot from a distance. But in 2002, he pulled it all together. So anything's possible. (Many times I can't tell who's on the ball in a US match, but I can tell Frankie from the widest TV angle imaginable. The kid's got the happiest feet on the planet. Fact.) So, yeah, Greg's been sucking. And if Bruce says that's it, so be it. But I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some more minutes in the Gold Cup.
While I agree that Vanney played a terrible game, I also think that you have to look at his relative inexperience at the international level. I think that he does work well with Bruce's system, and that given the experience and playing time Vanney will come to fruition on his potential!!
I have always liked Vanney as well, but he just has not played well the last few matches. I think part of the reason he is performing so poorly is because of his lack of playing time at Bastia. It took him a while to settle down in France and right when he starts seeing some good time and putting in good performances, Bastia brings in a young left back from Liverpool. So Vanney goes back to the bench. When he played for the Galaxy he was a really solid defender and he was strong on set pieces too (free kicks, penalty kicks). I remember reading he had some offers from teams in Germany and the French 2nd division. I believe if he makes a move to a club where he will see consistent first-team action, he will regain his form from his Galaxy days.
Excellent observations. Really nice analysis. I think there's a lot of truth in what you've written. What you are pointing out seems to be right on the money, and I think a big part of the solution to this situation is defensive speed. Well, speed, toughness, and the ability to contribute offensively. We need 4 core defenders that offer those qualities, and we need cultivation in more players with most of those qualities, who are willing and able to learn. Otherwise we're exposing ourselves to a lot of risk. Vanney is pretty tough, and does offer some attacking options, but has he always been so slow? It really stood out against Paraguay, so much so that I wondered if he was completely fit. I've never really noticed it that much before this. Pope is both quick and tough (albeit fragile). His offense is limited, but he's such a rock in defense that you just don't care. Sanneh is fast, tough, and very stong, and he contributes offensively. Additionally, he seems to have nearly eliminated his bad habits that made him seem like a liability in the past. Gibbs appears to be both tough and quick, although how much he can offer offensively is basically an unknown. Cherundolo is...well, I wouldn't really say tough, as much as 'scrappy', and he's no speed merchant. He adds to the offense, although I think less than he's received credit for recently. Berhalter? He's fairly tough, I suppose, but with mediocre speed and little to offer to the offense, not to mention poor judgement. Bocanegra looks to have it all, as long as he can remain focused. So the best we have on defense are Pope, Sanneh, Gibbs, and Bocanegra. Beyond those guys, I'd rather see Arena bring in some other people for further international exposure. Players that come to mind? Petke, C. J. Brown, Barrett, Fraser, Suarez, Dunivant. Hell, I'd say Lalas is a better choice than some of the backs we've got playing (not to say that he's a pushover)...