Waibel hacks down his Thug image

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by due time, May 19, 2003.

  1. due time

    due time Member+

    Mar 1, 1999
    Santa Clara
    From Cybersoccer game summary: http://www.cybersoccernews.com/mls/earthquakes/030518sje-crew.shtml

    "Overall, I've been stigmatized in this league as nothing but a thug, for lack of a better term," said Waibel, now in his fourth MLS season with three different teams. "One of the things in this league, especially with the officials we have, is you have to earn the respect from them. I thought the penalty was weak.

    "He's a smart guy. He's a World Cup forward, he knows when to go down and when not to go down. He had no play on the ball, that's why he went down. One of the things in this league - I'm not shy to say it - is that our referees have stigmatized players. He goes down knowing he doesn't have a play on the ball and he knows that it's me that he's going down against. Chances are he's gonna get that call."

    Craig, Craig, Craig (shakes head). Players have a tendancy to get such reputations when they do things like, I dunno, put headlocks on opponents and ride em down to the ground like a steer in a rodeo.

    Reminds me of an acquantance who was complaining that his '65 Mustang was a 'cop attracker' after getting a DUI for driving down the median.
     
  2. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice dive McBride! Take a look at the video:

    http://www.mlsnet.com/multimedia/pepsi/index.php

    I don't necessarily agree with Waibel, but he was correct in that McBride took a dive. Also, their was no change that he was going to get the ball. Terrible call...
     
  3. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    What exactly does Waibel have to offer outside of dirty play?

    Vertical leap? Speed? Great passing skills? Good shot? Nice crosses? Good first touch? Overlapping abilities?

    If you look like a thug, talk like a thug and play like a thug......you just might be a thug!
     
  4. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The dive is either on, or not on, Ross Paule. McBride takes the PK, but Paule is the one who went down.
     
  5. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They said that it on the video, but that's not the case. I'm pretty sure it was McBride. I remember him on the ground clapping. Can anyone confirm this?

    -KMJvet
     
  6. Smurfquake

    Smurfquake Moderator

    Aug 8, 2000
    San Carlos, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was McBride who went down in the box for the penalty call.
     
  7. QuakeAttack

    QuakeAttack Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    California - Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nope, it was McBride. Here is a quote from Waibel:

    "...He's a smart guy. He's a World Cup forward, he knows when to go down and when not to go down..."
     
  8. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough. Sorry for listening to the announcer.
     
  9. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now I have to differ with you on one point. I've talked to him a number of times face-to-face and he doesn't talk like a thug.;)
     
  10. living_ded_boy

    living_ded_boy New Member

    May 24, 2001
    Pleasanton, Ca
    Paule was the one who touched it in McBrides direction......McBride went down. It was a foul, my only problem is a "good ref" will take into consideration that there was no way McBride would have gotten to the ball anyway and ignored the contact.
     
  11. babytiger2001

    babytiger2001 New Member

    Dec 29, 2000
    Melbourne
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Correct call by Waibel on the PK award-- but while Macca did dive, there was a bit of contact from Waibel to begin with, but not enough contact IMO to warrant a PK without Macca's theatrics.

    Macca milked this one, IMO. And although I can't stand the tactic of diving, McBride did what all good forwards do from time to time, and that's dig into the little bag of tricks.
     
  12. sj_quakes_fan

    sj_quakes_fan Member

    May 18, 2001
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I won't comment on his play. But Craig is not a thug.
     
  13. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was Ali Sahileh. It's what is to be expected.
     
  14. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What foul was it... remembering of course, that McBride is a full grown man and not an U-14 girl.

    -KMJvet
     
  15. sj_quakes_fan

    sj_quakes_fan Member

    May 18, 2001
    San Jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, sometimes it's hard to remember that with those girlie legs he has.
     
  16. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    when you're in the air and you get pushed, you go down easier.

    it wasn't a dive; maybe a bad call, but not a dive.
     
  17. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A lot of people have been ragging McBride but there are two people to blame.

    1) The ref, who made a call which, if not made, would have gone unnoticed by McBride and the Crew.

    2) Waibel, for giving the ref a chance to make the bad call.

    McBride just did what forwards do. No biggie. No one complained when Ching went down like a cheap 'ho against LA. If a guy shoves you, you're under no obligation to fight to stay on your feet.

    Now if there was no contact whatsoever, I eat my words.
     
  18. Albany58

    Albany58 Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    Concord, CA USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pat Onstad said that Waibel did touch him. But that's all it takes to drop Fairy-Legs.
     
  19. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    He is on the field.

    Tied for 2nd in MLS with 18 fouls committed so far

    Tied for 1st in yellow cards with 4 in 6 games

    Isn't it interesting that Jimmy Conrad isn't even in the top 20 in cautions this year? Craig may be the nicest guy in the world off the field, but on the field his play qualifies for "thuggish"......
     
  20. DouginSJ

    DouginSJ New Member

    Mar 15, 2000
    San Jose, CA USA
    Thug. The numbers do not lie.

    Given the "quality" of refs in this league, defenders need to be above reproach. Waibel is far from it.

    Pity is, he could be a good defender if he didn't resort to stupid hacking and headlock tricks. He's a good man-marker, but his distribution is for sh!t...
     
  21. due time

    due time Member+

    Mar 1, 1999
    Santa Clara
    Thanks for getting this back on track.

    Waibel: Thug or misunderstood genius?

    I just found it ironic that he seems mystified why anyone would think of him as a physical player.

    19 replys and not one comment on my clever thread title! I was so proud of myself for thinking up that one. Excuse me while I go create a sock-puppet.

    At the game I was talking to my 10yr old son and we were discussing who it would be fun to play a rec soccer game with/against. When he said Waibel, a cold shiver went down my right leg, right at the spot of my previously broken fibula. I said, no way, he's the kind of player that will break your leg.

    BTW, I in no way mean how he behaves off the field, of which I have no idea. He may be, and likely is, a perfect gentlemen.
     
  22. Defender

    Defender Member

    Joe's Plumbing 86ers
    Feb 16, 2001
    San Francisco CA
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He needs to accept his thuggery. Only then can he get "Thug Life" tattooed across his stomach.
     
  23. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, if you can cheat and get away with it, more power to you. I think the game is about playing the other team and not about playing the ref. And that is how the laws of the game are written. IMO, playing the ref instead of the game makes the game bad. It's unsportsman like. But I have seen a lot XYs who think if you can be good at cheating go for it, more power to you.

    But, looking at the actual laws of the game.....in terms of the you're under no obligation to stay on your feet comment, that's not true. If you do something that creates the impression a foul was committed, and it wasn't, that's simulation. There's nothing in the laws of the game, about more power to you if you can cheat and get away with it. And in terms of any contact being a foul, that's simply not true either. For pushing, it must be "considered by the referee to be careless, reckless, or using excessive force." So, in this case it's a judgement on what is excessive force because clearly nothing reckless or careless happened. I haven't heard anyone say what supposed foul it was, but if there was contact I suppose it would have to be pushing. If so, that particular foul requires excessive force. Excessive force is dependent on what level you are playing. Excessive force is not the same for the U14 girls as it is for MLS. If someone falls down after contact in order to simulate that you were pushed with excessive force. That's simulation and should bring a yellow card. IMO, it's cheating, and it is a sign of a player that's playing the ref instead of the game.

    Now in terms of the Ching issue that you raise. That foul was holding. Holding requires no prerequisite of "reckless, careless or excessive force." Holding is a foul period. It is not part of what's within the realm of allowable contact.

    KMJvet
     
  24. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We're getting into a whole other topic. If a guy shoves me or kicks my legs out from under me, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. I'm going to fall, even if I have the physical ability to avoid falling. Why should I let him get away with throwing me off balance, against the laws and to his advantage?

    But if Waibel didn't touch McBride, or only touched him without pushing him, then I agree that's unsporting. It's hard to tell from the replay.

    From what I've seen, Waibel is NOT a thug. Hard-working, inelegant and weak at distribution, yes. Of course, committing harsh (thuggish) fouls or too many fouls will get you tossed and suspended. Has Waibel been tossed or suspended?

    Waibel's fouling might even be called 'judicious' as it's contributed to our overall excellent defending this year.
     
  25. KMJvet

    KMJvet BigSoccer Supporter

    May 26, 2001
    Quake Country
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kicking (or tripping) is different than pushing. Kicking or tripping require no excess force (or reckless or careless) to be a foul. In fact, it's a foul, (as I understand it) even if you don't succeed in kicking or tripping someone it can still be a foul...ie, it becomes a decision based on advantage or what the ref decides "is best for the game".
    Now in terms of pushing, where "excessive force" is required for it be called a foul, I think there's a different level of reaction your not considering. There's a push where you're going down, no matter what you might do. There's a push where you're not going down and you conciously opt to go down to get a call (IMO what McBride is guilty of), and there's a push where you would fall down unless you try to stay on your feet. For the 3rd kind, obviously, there's all sorts of levels of how much "trying" it would take to stay on your feet. In general, I admire players more who try to stay on their feet and make the play. I would hope, the referree could still make the call if they feel the push shows excessive force and no advantage is gained. I believe Donovan used to be a player that never tried to stay on his feet and embellished the nature of his falls. Thankfully, he's switched over to trying to stay on his feet and make a play most of the time.
    Also, I think when analyzing these plays, it's important to name the contact as it's named in the laws of the game, because that's how the refs are supposed to be guided.

    -KMJvet
     

Share This Page