Wahl: da Bruce raves about Clasico...trashes MLS setup

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by FlashMan, Nov 11, 2003.

  1. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    da Bruce raves about Clasico...trashes MLS setup

    Couldn't agree more:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/writers/grant_wahl/11/10/mls.classic/index.html

    Other great stuff in there too.
     
  2. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've discovered there's a thread over in the MLS section about Bruce's comments re playoffs, etc. (though not about his comments re el Clasico).

    Mod - close this thread if you feel it's redundant.
     
  3. jmeissen0

    jmeissen0 New Member

    Mar 31, 2001
    page 1078
    why close it?

    just rename it Grant Wahl's latest or something... if anything
     
  4. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Considering the higher seed won all four of those "short little series" (as if the one-more-game series they had before was a big improvement), I would say they validated the previous 30 games, not made them a farce.

    Bruce doesn't coach in this league anymore. He doesn't get a vote.
     
  5. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why are you here?


    :D

    I like the idea of the single table.

    I like the idea of bonuses for the top 4 teams

    I like the idea of Bruce opening up his checkbook and writing some checks to the players himself as well

    Just kidding on that last bit, but he's making almost as much money as Charlie Stillitano now.
     
  6. Revs007

    Revs007 Member

    Nov 11, 2000
    Boston
    More teams = More Difficulty making it to the playoffs = More interesting regular season = More intense games = More intense rivalries = More games for the Bruce to evaluate = Better league and National team overall.

    This league needs Expansion. Thats it!
     
  7. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Well, once again:

    Bruce's point carries even less weight when you figure it was the 9th place team involved in the superclassico. Who knows what a San Jose/New England series would've looked like.
     
  8. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have altered slightly my stance on the single table bit, though I still think it would suck to be a 15th or 16th place team and try to sell that. But, whatever.

    Bonuses would be good.

    Expansion would be good.

    Bruce realizing that Jovan Kirovski can't play would be good.

    But I see MLS' point in that they want to reach a point where 8 teams in the playoffs is only 50% of the league, but they want to try (finally) to keep a consistent format going forward. I see the point of those who would say that it doesn't make sense to have 8 of 10 in right now, and that you could always change it later. But things have gone according to Hoyle so far and they've put paid to the terrible, awful, ohmygodthiscouldreallyhappen spectre of LA winning the Cup.
     
  9. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Seems to me that cutting down the playoffs to 4 teams would accomplish the same thing...

    Or expanding the number of teams so that more than a handful are fighting to avoid missing the playoffs.
     
  10. Etienne_72772

    Etienne_72772 Member+

    Oct 14, 1999
    I dunno...

    Bruce's comments go back to all playoff systems wherever they are played in whatever sport they are played. A two-game series making a farce out of the previous 30 games is like a 5 game series in baseball making a farce out of the previous 162 (or whatever number it is) games. It's the nature of the beast, if you want to have playoffs. I agree with a previous post that once you get expansion, this won't matter so much. But I have enjoyed all of the playoff games I have seen so far, and would still have been a big proponent of the two-game series even if the LA-SJ game never happened.

    It all boils down to entertainment--was I entertained? I was throughout the season, and I was thorugh the first round of the playoffs. 'Nuff said.
     
  11. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, but a lot of people on these boards, and presumably even not on these boards, were NOT entertained by the regular season, where so many of the games are close to meaningless, if not completely meaningless. You and me may have enjoyed the games, but we're fanatics; but even many fanatics lost interest 'cause they know the games mean nothing, except to analyze new National Team prospects or something equally arcane.

    Therein lies at least some of the problem it seems to me.
     
  12. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think MLS has cornered the market on meaningless regular-season games, has it?

    I mean, I see your point, Flash. But it's the nature of the beast for right now. And I'm not 100% sure that a large percentage of the crowd at any MLS game (or any sports event, for that matter) knows or cares if a game is "meaningful" or not.
     
  13. FlashMan

    FlashMan Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    'diego
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, your absolutely right. 1/2 the baseball teams are done by June with over a 1/2 the season to go.

    I suspect there's no easy solution. Just increases my frustration I guess. :)
     
  14. Justin O

    Justin O Member+

    Seattle Sounders
    United States
    Nov 30, 1998
    on the run from the covid
    Club:
    Seattle
    Well, I agree 100% with what you’ve said, though I’m not sure whether or not I agree with the sentiment of what you’re saying. As an outside neutral fan, just as I am with MLS, the NBA and NHL need to cut back on the number of regular season games or do something, because they’ve pretty well sucked the life out of their regular season as far as I’m concerned. As for MLS, it’s a matter of degree. MLS allows 80% of the teams into the playoffs, making the regular season less interesting still. (Well, not really to me because I like soccer more than basketball or hockey, but all things being equal, it would be less interesting) It’s also a big reason why, again as a neutral, I find, for example, EPL matches more entertaining. (And yes, I have the Shoot-out so spare me the tired old “Euro-snob” lecture).

    The problem as I see it is, and this seems to be lost on most of the play-off, single table arguments, is that there are reasons why American sports have play-offs, most notably geography. Moreover, there are reasons why it’s done the way it’s done in Europe. I can’t think of any structure MLS could use that isn’t going to be problematic in some regard. That’s one reason why I try to stay out of the play-off vs single table arguments. That plus the fact that the arguments “that’s how it’s done in America” and “that’s how it’s done in soccer” are basically the same silly, short-sighted arguments just flipped on their heads.

    As for your point about fans not caring whether or not the games are meaningless, this seems very true (although it doesn’t address the problem of maintaining my interest). That seems to be at the core of the play-off attendance problem. Many (of course not all) people in the stands in July just go to games to see a soccer game, not because they live and die with (or are even really aware of) their teams’ quest for the MLS Cup. At least that’s how it seems to me.

    Anyway, if you’re having trouble with maintaining interest in the MLS regular season, my advice is to enter the wonderful world of online gambling! Hell, it’s why I got the shoot-out.
     
  15. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with you.

    However, I don't see NBA or NHL or MLB players agreeing to cut their regular seasons, and thereby cutting the amount of revenue their sports generate.

    I know the life has been sucked out of those sports' regular seasons. But the market decides. And as long as people keep ponying up to buy tickets, and broadcast outlets can keep making money by televising as many games as they can, you won't see a willful reduction in games anytime soon.
     
  16. diablodelsol

    diablodelsol Member+

    Jan 10, 2001
    North Ridgeville, OH
    30 games meaningless? Yeah, if the players treat them as such. I wish the Crew players had given a fck about those meaningless early season games, we might still be playing if they had.
     
  17. Justin O

    Justin O Member+

    Seattle Sounders
    United States
    Nov 30, 1998
    on the run from the covid
    Club:
    Seattle
    Oh I know there are financial reasons things are the way they are. I just still don't like it. However, I would exclude baseball because of the nature of the game. Given that each team uses at least 5 starting pitches over the course of a season, you essetially have at least 5 different versions of the same team playing throughout the season. As such, you need a long season to sort things out. For MLS, the NBA and the NHL it makes much less sense.
     
  18. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Plus, baseball has the advantage of having more broad-based appeal, both from a historical/interest standpoint and from an experience standpoint. You really can't beat a summer night at the old ballpark, whether the team is 30 games out of first place or not.
     
  19. Stevedm

    Stevedm Red Card

    Jan 19, 2000
    Chicago
    Not too sure

    See if the MLS gets to 14-16 tems in the next 4 years this point will be moot!!!! Every game will mean something. This is true but in the next 5 years having 16 teams makes every game mean that much more. Even at 14 it makes it more important. But they can try stuff and see what works best!! try it one year see how it goes. If it doesn't work go back. I don't think we have to worry. MLS has shown willingness to experiment so I don't we have to worry too much. It will get better over time!!
     
  20. due time

    due time Member+

    Mar 1, 1999
    Santa Clara
    Re: Not too sure

    Except for the games where the 15th team plays the 16th team anywhere near the end of the season. European leagues give this meaning with relegation. Without relegation, which is impossible with how MLS is structured today and probably will be for some time, many games will be VERY NOTICEABLY meaningless near the season's end.
     
  21. harttbeat

    harttbeat Member

    Dec 29, 1998
    New York
    After checking out the playoff attendance, is playoff really catching on to MLS fans? I like the idea of single table regardless of relegation. But the trick is what kinda bonuses? 1st place is MLS Cup Champ. 1st and 2nd place get to play Libertadores Cup? 3rd and 4nd get to play CONCACAF cup? 1st through 4nd get one week bye for US Open Cup? 1st through 4nd place team get extra bonuses money for player salary (since player get pay crap in mls) through a pool. Is that enough incentive to work hard throughout the season?
     
  22. Freddy Garcia Lives

    Feb 28, 2003
    Tumwater, WA
    I'm all for the single table format, and seeing the playoffs cut to 4 teams for now, or even six with a bye for the top two teams getting a bye. I just can't stomach seeing 8 of 10 teams going on. Love the Crew but a losing record doesn't merit the playoffs, it's like a 6-6 team making the bowl game in CF. But I guess that is a form of relegation. I love MLS but I agree with Bruce and say anything that picks up the pace of the game here in the States is good news.
     
  23. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's more the format, I think, which lends itself better to selling tickets.

    More games on weekends. Playoff dates locked in. Better TV coverage to build interest. More time to actually sell tickets to the game (the Fire had something like 40-50 groups at Sunday's game, maybe more). No all-of-a-sudden-there's-a-game-three on a Wednesday.

    And you may not have to fret the 8-out-of-10 make the playoffs much longer, if they expand by two in 2005 and continue after that. If they continue to fund this thing past 2006, I would imagine about half the teams in the league will be in SSS's or close to it, and it'll be 8 of 12 or 8 of 14 getting in. Which is not so bad.
     
  24. Kqql

    Kqql Member

    Sep 22, 2003
    Garber and company need to listen to DA BRUCE!

    MLS needs to move to a single table and get rid of the OT during the regular season.
     
  25. Jimjamesak

    Jimjamesak New Member

    May 3, 2003
    Anchorage Alaska
    I agree with the whole bonus thing but wasn't this tried before? I mean the Million-Dollar Game! come -on!

    Alright just kidding, the XFL makes MLS look like the NFL business wise. Cool idea but American culture says we need playoffs, just have 4 teams instead of 8. Other than that who knows.
     

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