And the use of "alternative methods of interogation". http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060906/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush The whole notion of secret prisons and torture seems un American to me but besides that; Why would he disclose this? "Oh, by the way we have these secret gulags around the world. thought ya might like to know."
I've never really understood the need for "secret" prisons. What's the point, when they can be totured just find in Gitmo or Abu Ghirab?
We are in the middle of a full-court press where the administration is re-selling the war on terror in advance of midterm elections. It's a long shot, but it is the ONLY thing he has to hang his hat on. My guess from the recent speeches and disclosures are that he is going to take full credit for pissing on the constitution, the geneva conventions and any other law that would normally limit the executive branch, and sell the whole terror thing to whatever base will buy it.
This is what I posted in the other thread: The administration is transferring high-ranking notorious al-Qaeda members to Guantanamo to be tried under some tribunal legislation the administration is introducing today. Seems like a calculated move. If Dems oppose the tribunals, they'll be seen as standing in the way of bringing terrorists to justice. Of course, that glosses over that it took the Supreme Court to make this administration even pretend to follow the law. Still, if you recall the 2002 midterm elections, Rove & Co. treated people who were opposed to the civil service provisions of the Homeland Security bill as traitors who supported bin Laden. Why wouldn't they do the same thing again?
Bush admits to CIA secret prisons. A journalist"Mr.President,can you repeat that slowly,please?" Bush "Next question!"
The thing is, they were only secret to Americans. Lots of terrorists or terrorist-looking-types have gone through the system and out the other end. They knew about it, and told others. That is the absolute worst kind of secret there is. It is a direct attack apon our system of goverment.
Why didn't the terrorists tell us then? They have only themselves to blame for keeping this a secret!
You know you would think that this disclosure would help make the case for impeachment of Bush. Plus with mid-terms coming up, you would think the Dems would use this as a means to attack the Reeps and help their chances of taking back control of Congress. I don't have much respect for the Dems, but if they can't use this among many other violations of the Constitution by Bush and Co. then they don't deserve to have any power in this country.
To be honest,I don't see this becoming a big issue in the States.The term,"national security",has been so effectively used by the Republicans and this issue perfectly falls into the category.
Yes this is true, and a big part of why is because the Dems have failed to counter the reeps on this issue. I think that we in the US had to make changes after 9/11, but what Bush has done is over the line and in essence has given the terrorists a victory of sorts by limiting our freedoms. The wire tapping and now these not so secret prisons show utter contempt and disdain for what our Country has stood for. As an American I am not willing to let it go in the name of National Security.
Yeah,but how?In the culture easily driven by fear,you'd have hard time convincing people to observe a law when they are told that that could lead to getting blown away by a bomb.
I know what you are saying, and you are right, the fear factor works very well for the reeps. See this is where the Dems for the past 5 years have failed. They should have been able to use the Downing Street Memo's the illegal wiretapping and now this to impeach Bush. They should have also found a way to use the "fear factor" with the public over lost rights and point how these tactics are on the same lines as the Soviets and the KGB. Secret Prisons, secret police, if the Dems had a smart canadate or if they could bring over a moderate Reep or someone like Powell to speak out on this then they could have swayed people away from the "the terrorists are coming, the terrorists are coming" rally cry from the Reeps. I say this as a person more inclined to vote for the Reeps then the Dems. But I, and I suspect many others in the US, are not willing to sacrifice our nations freedoms or ideals for Bush or anyone else. Part of the oath for the Military is to protect our nation from threats both foreign and DOMESTIC. I view this as the latter.
I know what you are saying, and you aren't ruining my day, yet.... but first we have illegal wire taps, then we have illegal attempts to gain information from search engines about private use, now secret prisons, soon will we have our own KGB to worry about? Where does it stop?
It doesn't. That's the beauty of it. Wannabe-reeps like Matt and his ilk contnue to abdicate US freedoms and buy into the authoritarims of the Bush administration. I mean, who cares about torture, wiretaps, unauthorized detention, propaganda programs, stupid pointless wars and the like, as long as the terrorists don't hit us. Who is worse, the Bush adminstration for creating this crap, or the people that play along with it?
Sure I want all people to work as cells in a body to further the cause of our glorious state, but I want that state to be transparant. This guy is running a secret dictatorship.
So? What's your G******* point? Because the functional anencephalics who consider morning radio celebrity baby updates to be "news" are incapable of forming an opinion, its acceptable for anonymous freaks to torture other humans beings in secret prisons? Seriously, what's your f******* problem?
Who says I'm playing along? I have thought since the beginning that his warrantless wiretapping program is an unconstitutional abortion and the existence of undisclosed prisions is terrible. Go ahead and look at my back posts if you don't believe me. I have also voted against this douchebag 4 times in 2 races, primary and general. All I'm saying is that if he is looking to the voice of the people to speak out about this issue he can forget it. This administration has done a ton of retarded things and this program ranks really low in importance to your typical voting family who needs to get Jimmy to soccer practice before Suzie's dance lessons are over.
I doubt the average american knows what the KGB was (it's been almost 20 years, which means it would involve some understanding of history), and i'm certain the average american could give two shits about torturing a bunch of arabs.
And of course, the timing of this whole escapade is highly suspect, in fact, it's a total disgrace. He now wants to rush congress into action during their brief pre-election session and when the new law is not passed, blame the Dems that the 9/11 families won't have "closure" and that they are weak on terrorism when it's him that hid these guys from view all these years, obstructed attempts at any trial, and waited until after the holiday weekend, when americans were paying attention again, to make this announcement. Here's my 5 year anniversary of 9/11 wish: that all politicians, and all people stop politicizing what happened that day. 9/11 and the immediate days after were tragic, but beautiful in some ways. It didn't take long for all types of politicians, and frankly in this city, bureaucrats to start using it for excuses for all kinds of things.