Volume in TRE

you mean something like Philadelphia Dale? come on the U? Come one Union score a goal (at least I think we started that one)? if you want to dive the river's over there?
We have plenty of songs, and some very good and original songs as well. When you doubt how good we sound, watch a game from outside TRE.
But then again this thread is going in circles: we are not loud enough; our songs stink; if you don't like it do it yourself; we are not loud enough..... I just wonder how long it will take for someone to start the supporter vs fan discussion again

 

I couldn't disagree more.

Why not? Taking swipes at SoB, especially in the SoB forum, when one doesn't agree is perfectly fair game. Why is the opposite not true?

You make a good point, T. but let me retort. SoB isn't some sort of political movement. In essence, it is a community. If you don't want to be part of the community, don't. That's fine. However, simply paying a fee to get a scarf doesn't make you part of a community. The SoB I joined was bigger than me. It made me proud to be part of something. I'm genuinely sorry you never got to feel that way about SoB, because it is something I cherish.

Opinions are like assholes. Incessant bitching without doing something about it turns these boards into a literary talk radio with no guidance. Hasn't it occured to you why the SoB elders, who used to literally LIVE on these boards never show up? White Noise.

Wrong, T. This isn't about people who want to support the Union. This is about people who critisize the way things happen without wanting to change them.

You raise an interesting point. Until you have tried to coordinate a trip for 600 people with a 90 mile bus ride, a tailgate, securing tickets, contemplating insurance, and all the other little nuances of organizing a trip of that size, maybe you shouldn't complain. Until you've dealt with angry phonecalls from team officials swearing they have lost high revenue suiteholders over their claims that YSA has cost the team needed revenue, you shouldn't get upset about repeated emails begging us to knock it off. Until you've organized food and drink for 500, trying to plan that everyone gets enough to eat, and little SoB money is wasted, you might not get upset about tailgate arraingements. Until you've done these jobs, for no pay or benefit of any kind, and been literally brought to tears by angry drunks who think it's their Zolo given right to tear you to shreds over a minute detail that might have been underestimated or overlooked, maybe it would be a better idea not to be so quick to make judgements.

Continuing to deal with people like you, T. is why SoB has the problems it has. This has grown in less than 4 years from 3 guys hanging out at a bar table dreaming of a MLS club in Philly to a fully accredited 501(c)3 non profit organization, on the backs of people who performed these tasks out of love of their club and their compatriots. Dealing with this consistent white noise, IMHO, is part of the reason why so many of the original elders have distanced themselves from BigSoccer and SoB. After this season, I'm not capoing any longer. I'm not going to involve myself with tailgates, painting Tifo, hanging banners, or any of the other stuff I have done in the past. That work will still need to be done. Either it will be taken on by too few people doing far too much already, or new volunteers, ready to serve, will need to take my place. Are you ready to do it, T.? Are you, McRob? What about anyone else?

You're damned right I'm bitter. Good luck next season. Either someone new takes my place in 135, or it's empty. At this point, with the shitty attitudes I get, I don't care. Just remember what you said to me in the stairwell in RBA. "I don't want to tell you my name. I'm an asshole."

 

So, I'm a whiny, bitchy asshole who doesn't care about anything and has no right to say anything about anything because I'm not capoing. But you're not even going to be a part of anything next season.

K.

/discussion

 

Not quite. If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Next year, after I leave SoB and stop capoing and helping out, I lose the right to expect my bitching to be heard.

See how that math works?

My friends in SoB will still be my friends, but if I don't like something, that's basically tough shit for me. When I'm not part of the team, I lose my voice in the team's direction.

Will you take my place?

 

I...I just can't understand this sentiment.

And it's not the first time I've seen it on these boards.

But, I mean. I'm just trying to imagine the mental conversation here: "Well, I was going to be more involved, possibly make the group better while at the same time finding greater enjoyment in the group as a return on my investment of time and energy...

but some dude was a dick to me on the internet so screw it."

I'm willing to accept that my inability to see the sense in this is a failing on my part.

 

You're right, leaving the group will finally bring you all the way down to my level and is totally equivalent. I'll miss these kinds of insights next season.

Enjoy your retirement. I have nothing else to say to you.

 

We already do You'll never walk alone. At least for the Independence games.

I think the easy way to solve this problem and other problems is easy. Ask the Teber Lot for a dedicated area each season where we can construct a thunderdome. Two SOB's enter one SOB's leaves

 

Fair enough, you make a good point, but then again you admit it isn't the first time you have heard this sentiment. What is your explanation for why people feel this way?

I can't speak for anyone else, but it isn't about someone being a dick to me on the internet. It does have to do with the way some people act or treat others and me debating whether that is something I want to be associated with.

 

Maybe a tad bit mellow dramatic? Where did I once make judgements about the people who run the tailgate, paint tifo, lead chants or donate their time or skill in other ways. I didn't criticize the SOB's, I criticized you and few people that I feel are like you.

You are wrong, paying your membership dues and getting your scarf does make you part of the community Some members are more involved than others, some help out more, some don't help at all, but they are all part of the community. This is regardless of whether they pass your personal litmus test. Do you really think your policy of berating and insulting people is going to make people want to get more involved? Good luck with that.

People like me are the problem? I go to every game, I have been to more than a few away games. I am loud and go home voiceless after almost every game.

As for what I said to you in the stairwell, well that was mostly in jest and it was private. I do find it odd that you bitch and moan about people not giving you respect, but when I had the simple request for you not to use my real name on BS, you basically responded "no, tough shit". So you want people to listen to you, respect you, follow you, but you are not going to give the same respect in return?

 

Honestly, I don't have one.

No one who posts here with any sort regularity anymore speaks for the whole group, so it's not a matter of leaders/elders chewing people out here.

It's a group of 2,000-some-odd people. And in any group of that size where the only thing you're guaranteed to have in common with others is that you like the same soccer team and prefer specific kind of support, it's not particularly likely you're going to get along swimmingly with everyone. There's going to be some personality clashes.

I don't know if I'm lucky or what, but I've yet to meet anyone at a tailgate or painting party I didn't instantly get along with. I've even managed to avoid arguments on these boards.

But I'm not so naive to think that my experience is the be-all and end-all. I just hope it doesn't stop people from getting more involved.

 

Someone will, and hopefully (s)he'll pull it off without the same weird sense of superiority.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. I apologize to 136RR, McRob, and anyone else I have pissed off. I shouldn't have shot my mouth off, no matter what I thought my "good intentions" were. You'll hear nothing further from me on this matter, or any other.

 

I read half this thread....really fellas???

"you suck", "no you suck", "my mom said I'm the best....."


lets just be loud, be respectful and support our team.

my only complaint if it's a complaint is across the pitch behind the other goal or in the suite above the goal it's hard to hear some of the chants and occassionly we wish we knew what was being said so we can sing along. but it is a ways away....

 

I know Jim and Local River Rat and both are good guys. Jim is not an elitist and when he wasn't at the DC United match, our section was way behind the others during chants. I may not sing every song, but I do appreciate his effort and passion for the team. LRR136 is just as passionate of a fan as Jim, but he chooses to support the team in a different way. Some people like to lead and get involved, some people like to follow and some people like to do their own thing. It is what it is.

 

Re: Official: [2011 Matchday 33] Toronto FC @ Union - October 15, 2011 p/d/p [R]

136 started spectacularly, then it drifted, then it kinda stopped. I am in the second to last row right next to 137. From where I stand it seems to me that the capos next to 137 aren't always easy to hear. I love Lorenzo's enthusiasm, but he is just not loud enough. I can hear Justin when he comes off of the launch pad. The same goes for Jeremy.

Then there is the drum - I can hear the drum on the opposite side of 137 better than the one next to my section. I think we need to work on the placement of the drums to maximize their effect. I suggest hanging it right on the end of the front rail (away from the tunnel) or the same spot on the back rail if the front doesn't work.

Finally, We need to get the capos up to crowd level. If we can't hear or see them then we can't get in sync.

They do great work, and I truly appreciate their commitment, but we can and should do better.

 

Re: Official: [2011 Matchday 33] Toronto FC @ Union - October 15, 2011 p/d/p [R]

I hope it is better on Sunday, I have seats in 136.

 

Right. So getting this thing derailed train back on track...


Who says that the middle of 137 is "prime seating"? Everyone knows the SS is led from there. Why is someone knowingly going to sit there, when they have 1,999 other seats to choose from, if they don't want to participate? It's completely counterintuitive. I'll make the same comparison that I did before. People who go to shows (punk/hardcore/metal, etc.) know that you don't go to the center front unless you want to be thrown around and squeezed against other bodies. If they accidentally end up there, they usually and ideally move. Allowing for some exceptions, the same logic-not the same circumstances obviously-would apply to a General Admission River End. Tradition will keep people who don't want to participate out of the sections where participation is the norm. It's simple sociology.

For those of you who are afraid of losing your spot, have your neighbor hold it for you if you're going to grab a beer or take a leak. And then give him or her a hearty sip of the beer as a thank you gift afterwards. Easy.

I think you anti-GA guys are kind of mistaken in thinking that everyone else is going to covetously attack and conquer your seats as soon the opportunity presents itself, or that your seats hold the same value in some random stubhubber's mind that they do in yours. Jess370 you're in front of 136, so your seats would be the exception. People'd probably have their eyes on them. Not trying to offend, but let's say hypothetically that TRE officially becomes General Admission, we start to kick even more a$$ in the stands, and you have to sit 4 rows up, or wherever you'd end up, instead of right down in front (I assume you sit there, judging from your comments). I'm sure you'll still have a good time, right? And I'm sure that a lot of ish fans won't be there to complicate things. Then you'll have an even BETTER time. You won't have to worry about the middle part of 136 sucking anymore, and we up at the top won't have to worry about picking up the slack. (Ofey, I dig our neighbors too man, but who says we won't be able to sit with our neighbors if it were GA?)

To be clear, I'm not saying GA will turn The River End into a supporter's utopia, or that it'd cure all the volume and organization related problems that we're discussing right now. Who knows, it may even cause some new ones in their place. I think it should be given a shot though. I'm tired of singing myself hoarse while Moms, Dads, children, and random John Q Stubhubbers stand there silent and make things either awkward, boring, or tense. I want to sing myself hoarse with other people who are singing themselves hoarse. I'd even pay 5 bucks more for a ticket for extra security in the section if policing is the issue (we've been well behaved lately. the policing thing is a topic for another day).

Basically, are we willing to sacrifice some convenience and seat security for a more united, louder RE? Because in my opinion GA in TRE is one sure way to attain that goal. Giving TRE some time to bloom is of course another.

 

I think GA could work. I like the concert analogy. I used to hang at the back of the pit for most shows - diving in when I wanted. It could work.

 

I'm definitely pro GA. Tom's analogy to a hardcore show is pretty spot on and more or less the point I was about to make.

My seats in 137 are really good and all, but it's hard to keep up my energy when most of the two rows behind me are single game tix, stubhubber's or people just not interested in the singing & jumping around stuff.
Plus some matches (especially weeknight ones) I run out of steam by halftime and really wouldn't mind just hanging out in the periphery with a beer, watch the game & let someone else be Johnny-go-bananas on top of the tunnel.

I understand the concerns of those of you in the front row of 138 & 136, but in all honesty your seats cost the same as everyone else's and nobody is saying you can't still be there. You just might need to get to your seats a little earlier. Maybe we can try a hybrid semi-GA sometime where it is GA, but if someone wants to stand where their ticket is then don't be a douchenoozle and let them have the seat (same as how we do for USMNT & road trips, right?)

 

I think "Semi-GA" already happens to some degree... I know I have had a few friends with tickets elsewhere in the RE/they bought a ticket elsewhere in the River End for a single game and will come over to 137 and squeeze in if there is room.... never had and issue.

there always seems to be a smattering of empty seats or standing space in the center for whatever reason... so i welcome anyone who scopes them out and wants to come on over.

 

Yeah, agree that it is already happening. Just think it would be nice to make it official & set some ground rules so there's no confrontations or confusion....

 

Here is the deal ... Jim has done more for the Sons of Ben than you. Period.

That is not a judgement on your character, that is a simple statement of fact.

Here is what you do not seem to understand ... In order to be heard by the SoB leadership, you need to step up and make an effort to help. Here's why. Let's say you work in a factory. Day in and day out, you and your crew do your thing and work hard. Now imagine some guy, that you have never seen, shouting at you that you are doing it wrong. What is your gut reaction? You probably ignore him because you and your crew have been doing it and this guy is just jumping in and blowing hot air.

If you want to have influence within the Sons of Ben then you need to work with us and become a part of the team that does the heavy lifting. Effort is credibility. Shouting from the sidelines - even if what you have to say is valid - will not be heard. Go set up or clean up a tailgate. Help hang banners before the game. Help fold tiff after the game. Become a capo. Or just go ask one of the elders if there is something you can do to help.

That will get your voice heard.

 

I'm on the fence with this. Mostly I just feel like the Union wouldn't go for it. They want us to be crazy... but not too crazy. I think they might see it as a loss of control.

I know for some of you, that last sentence is like waving red in front of a bull.

While not strictly opposed to GA, I'd be more interested in finding ways to clamp down on third-party sales of tickets. I think that is more of an issue.