http://http://www.firsttouchonline.com/?p=2068 One of ESC's longest tenured members wrote a very interesting article about an incident with a ticket rep and the contrast of sales styles between Red Bull and Seattle. Now i expect the usual suspects won't like it, but its well written and makes interesting points (he's not even a RB hater..but will likely be branded one i am sure)
That's funny! The first part of the article is the same exact thing you post here all the time. The part about the Never Waste a Ticket is a bit incorrect. The Charge is $7 (not $10) and it goes for any amount of tickets. Check out your season ticket package and find the never waste a ticket form, as the information is right there. I'm about to send 12 in and it will cost me $7 (for the entire 12) to get 12 for the Toronto game. Maybe that guy was expecting a freebie because he's a member of the Mighty ESC , but sh*t, if I have to pay for it, so should he. And I'm not going to complain about how it sucks to have to pay the charge either. Great quotes from Drew Carey, btw. Still, I'm not going to sit here and wish this was Seattle. This is what we got and I'm going to support. Sorry!
ummm... i've never paid to trade my tickets for another game under the Never-Waste-a-Ticket program. i know there is a $10 charge to exchange them at the window on game day, but i always just call my ticket rep, tell him i'm sending tickets and what i want them exchanged for, and in a few days they are in my mailbox or waiting for me at the will-call window at GS. no charge edit: after reading the article, the writer tried to exchange them at the window. there is a $10 fee. if you don't want to pay it, then exchange them earlier. done deal.
Crap, idriveavw! I should call my rep and ask him if I can get the same deal. In the past, I've just filled out the form and sent the tickets in with payment, not bothering to call anyone. Also, I didn't know about the game day $10 charge, but I'm betting if you went there with several tickets, it would be a $10 charge for the whole lot, not just one. And I agree: if you don't want to pay that, exchange them in advance (and you might even get them exchanged for free).
Yeah i wouldn't worry about that part...prob just one of those other 49 people you talk about. Well the post after you shows you dont even know the full policy. I mean its like you intentionally miss th epoint as to avoid agreeing with any of it. The point isn't he felt special or that because he is in ESC he somehow felt they should only make an exception for him...the point was that they could have easily made the concession for the fan if they wanted to but didn't because they are not a fan first sytle of business. And we all know you will never complain about anything...that is why you are the perfect supporter for red bull. Why? Why wouldn't you want our organization to try and emulate the many things and approaches Seattle took that have proven to be highly successful and use them to help build things here? Oh thats right, because you are content on just taking what is given to you and dont strive to see things better..after all none of what Seattle is doing matters...we just need to win.
Just another ESC type complaining about...nothing. Yeah, the hardcore. Ooh, you got me there. You're right, as I didn't even know they had a policy on exchanges at the ticket window. But thanks to idriveavw, I now know that there is that option. Hey, there are lots of times I can't get what I want to either, and I just move on. I'm a humble guy and I don't feel entitled to anything. Be prepared to pay for everything in life, that's what I always say. Don't feel you are entitled to a hand-out, then you won't feel too bad when you don't get it. And, yeah, all the free stuff that is given out to season ticket holders, the fact that you can actually exchange unused tickets, the best soccer specific stadium in the US (all privately funded), the money they've discounted season ticket holders for the stadium being late, the free season ticket a few years back (when you bought 2), not raising the season ticket prices (for current season ticket holders) next year, the end-of-season event for season ticket holders, tours of the new stadium, buses for 700 people down to DC when they first took over, Shakira, Rhianna (all right - so I'm kidding with the last two). All proof that they're NOT a fan first style of business. Yeah, uh huh... Oh, I complain about plenty around here, but it usually has to do with matters that actually affect the soccer being played. You know - things that actually matter. No, no - what Seattle is doing matters. I've been there and it's terrific what they've done. Things are a bit different around here. You can pine all you want about how you'd like things to be the carbon copy here, but it's just not going to happen. If things change, Red Bull sells, fine, but your little fringe clique is certainly not going to change anything here. Hopefully, Red Bull can get the team issues settled. Yes, winning will go a long way to making this a great experience, but, sadly, I realize that's not going to be enough for you. If we win the MLS Cup, it won't be enough for you. Sorry! But really, be well and take care.
Thanks man, great read. I think Matt is spot on. The whole focus of the FO seems off. You can just smell it. By the way, the point of this thread should not be to debate whether the ticket exchange policy is there or not. The point is that there is no passion for the game in many of the decisions made by the team. You need the fans. Yes, I think that RB is trying, but it's clear they need more "soccer guys" behind the scenes.
The point of this thread was to point out another supposed "slight" to an ESC type by Oniosack. The culprit was one ticket rep at the Giants Stadium ticket booth. That person might not have had any leeway in that situation. If you read idriveavw's post above, he get's hooked up for free by his Ticket Rep. And, really, they FO guys that I've dealt with have gone the extra mile for me several times. I will agree with you on more "soccer guys". It never hurts to have too many of those.
It clearly states on the form that a $7 charge (or $1.50 if you want to get the new ticket(s) via online account manager) will be applied. I've had to exchange tickets at the window in the past and had to pay $10 - them's the rules. Why should this guy get special treatment? I traveled to MLS Cup in LA, Seattle, New England and even to Toronto for a game that got moved this summer. The fee seems reasonable enough to me. Hell, most teams in most sports don't even offer an option like this, so I appreciate it and will pay the fee if I have to rather than eat tickets. Viper didn't even mention the parking voucher as another one of the freebies they give away to early renewing ST holders. Every time I've called my ticket rep to help out with something he has been there for me and done his absolute best. He even brought a big bag of swag by our seats last season when I brought my boy to one of the games. So I just don't get the idea that the organization is tight-fisted or anything less than generous.
But RBNY is entitled to one from you? Weird. I mean you pay for A level professional soccer and you don't get it.
There you go with your paranoia and insecurity again. The article was in the largest circulated free soccer magazine in the tri-state area and the ticket thing was just a small example of a much broader thesis. Like i said before, you missed the point...at first i thought it was intentionally, now i think it just might be plain ignorance. So do you agree with the thesis of the article..thank you.
But it's a completely illegitimate complaint. They lay out the rules of the NWAT program in the season ticket package. If he didn't want to pay the $10 he had the option to get the tickets sent to him online virtually gratis. So positioning this as some example of RBFO season ticket holder a**rape is just baloney.
Them's weren't the rules before this year. Just another penny wise, pound foolish decision from RBFO.
Yeah, I completely forgot about that one, which I've done before. I do believe the charge was $1.95 though. We should get that straight or Onionsack will accuse me of ignorance, yet again. Another one that I completely forgot about, thanks. Probably because I didn't get that benefit this year, as I didn't have the money to renew early (I did get another gift). I did get that benefit the past two seasons for a savings of about $300. Yeah, so I didn't get it this year. I didn't bitch about it and paid the parking fee. I'm a total sell-out. Well, that's why consumers have a choice. I chose to renew my season tickets last year and I'm going to do so again for next season. And this, knowing that a complete turn-around is highly unlikely. You dont' have to do as I, hence consumer choice.
Please do forgive my ignorance, oh great one. The thing is, the first part of this article was a complete rehash of everything you post here. Unless you were pointing out that another ESC guy thinks just like you do, then I guess I did miss the point. I'll be waiting for articles in other free soccer magazines in the tri-state area from another 48 ESC types. Well, you did quote the part about the ticket thing, adding: So please do forgive me, oh great one, if I came under the impression that this was the main point of your crap this time..
The problem is the mentality in the process of the decision. This organization has virtual no fans, and needs to be doing what it can to build a fanbase from proactically nothing. Now as a ticket representive for this organization when faced with a fan that is irrate about a ticket exchange policy, even if its is because he may or may not know about the fee or misunderstood the program, why would you simply shrug your shoulders and say well them is the rules, sorry. Yeah i f you are the NY Giants, Jets or Yankees and have millions of fans you can get away with that, but when you are the Red Bulls you really need to be doing much more to retain make consessions for your fans. It really wouldn't have cost the organization anything to make a concession and then instructed the fan on what to do next time to avoid this, excecpt $10. Is that really worth risking ailenating the fan (of which you have few of) and possibly preventing them from paying $300+ for season tickets again? That is not even taking into account the whole one angry fan theory. The overall idea being put forward in that piece, for those not so anti-critisism to catch, is that other places have found success in building fanbases from nothing by adopting a fan first approach, even if it may cost them more now or if they may even have to bend their rules. Seattle, has seemed to do many things right and been quite inventive doing so to build what is a moster. They may expand to almost 40K seats to meet demand from new ST requests. Drew Carey's statements cast light on what they precieve is a probalem with other MLS clubs that are always looking at numbers and quantitative metrics and not qualitative ones. To you its just a bitch piece, i get it. But if you think critically about the substantive issues it raises then i hope you can see it is much more than that.
I see his substantive issues, even if I do not agree with them. It's very much in keeping with your view of the club, which I understand, even if I do not buy into it. But I can also see where the ticketing rep is coming from. You start making exceptions to a rule and the word spreads that they don't really enforce their policy. So instead of using the online system or mailing tickets in for exchange, you start to get lines of people at the ticket booth exchanging tickets and expecting not to have to pay. Meanwhile the people who followed the procedure they laid out ended up ponying up either $1.95 or $7 and Red Bull is left with a stack of tickets that are unsellable because they were most likely swapped on the day of the game. One thing I will never complain about with Red Bull is the attitude of its ticket reps. I have always found them to have a high degree of accountability and professionalism. Now if we are talking about Giants Stadium staff or the football operations part of Red Bull that's a whole different story.
The FO would jizz in their pants to have anything get lines of people near a Giants Stadium ticket window on gameday.
Don't take this the wrong way, its nothing persoanlly directed to you...but the "slippery slope" argument is always one of the least convincing tools in debate. Its generally just a hypothetical outcome based on an unknown chain of events that may or not have any correlation at all. Generally i think this holds true but your designated ticket rep and the gameday ticket staff are different. Your rep gets comission from your business where the person at the gate on matchday doesn't and may not be as vested in your happiness. I know my ST rep (Steeves) has always tried to help me when i asked. But this isnt the first time the ticket window reps have tried to fleece fans; ESC has a exchange program for seasont tickets holders who want to exchange their tickets for tickets into 101 on gameday. Its a simple swap, no fee (but it only applies to ST's which i object to i think it should be for anyone that wants to swap with a paid for ticket that day), but i found out they were still charging people $10 to do this. I had to go confront them and had i not know the ticket rep personally they probably wouldn't have even checked with their bosses inside. We got an appology but it was clear their was either no communication to them of the deal or they just didn't care to inquire when others told them it was supposed to be no fee.
Jesus, I didn't realize I was in a forensic society meeting. My larger point is that they should not make exceptions to the ticket exchange rules. Either enforce the rules or don't. But don't treat a single season ticket holder one way and then take money from fans who bother to follow the rules. As a parent, by the way, I personally think that the "slippery slope" argument has a lot of validity.
i do have to take issue with your condemnation of "ESC types", viper. I'm a proud member of ESC. have been for 3 years now.
I'm sure many people in the ESC (and I was a member for many seasons) are not this way, but what I mean by that is that several people from this group have become total snobs. They're the "Real" supporters and everyone else is part of the "Prawn Sandwich" brigade. They're "entitled", apparently, and don't piss them off because you need "Real" supporters to build "Real" soccer culture. God forbid people bring their kids to the stadium because there are too many little kids running around and it's not "proper". Oh, and don't suggest they do away with their you-suck-a'hole-and-your-mother.... type chants so maybe they can get new members or stop doing the wipeout, as the opposition usually scores when they do. You'll get the "Hey, we're going to do what we want and you don't have to stand in our section" lecture. I haven't personally chimed in on these issues, but I've seen the posts and have heard the discussions. Yeah, the hardcore. I'm still wating to hear what happened to Kevin Mac and Nathan, and the slew of others no longer here. At the very least, they're gone and we don't have to continously read the crap of disgruntled, former "supporters". My apologies. I don't want to lump you, or wgood, with what I meant, so I'll refrain from using that term in the future.