Victims of a Campaign- The Other Footy Teams Thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by GunneRy, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    He was a classic counter player in germany then came up under Mou's system

    IMO he never properly learned the modern systems from the mid 2010s

    It's a favourite thing of mine to go back to but i feel like Rene Maric pretty much nailed it
     
  2. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    the only manager that seems to had a problem with him was Emery.

    My only point is that Ozil coulda been a more defensive player with coaching. He wasn't lazy at all.
     
  3. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #41728 The Jitty Slitter, Jun 10, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2025
    yes - he was very quick and full of running contrary to the discourse.

    According to rene maric who is part of the Tuchel school, Ozil had some bits missing to the development of his game which were more symptomatic of Arsenal in general - particularly to do with spacing etc. He still played to a very high level from 2013-2017 in what was a declining Arsenal side. But he was always more at home in a countering set up rather than a possession oriented high pressing side. By the time Arteta turned up he was physically done i think - though he did look excellent in that side pre covid.

    I think it's no surprise that he looked so good in midfield with Toni Kroos in the 2016 German team. Probably he could have adapted to that as he aged.
     
  4. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    IIRC, Before he was frozen out of the squad by Arteta, at least some of his absences in his last few seasons at Arsenal were attributed to back problems. So I wasn’t surprised when he had back surgery during his time in Turkey and retired shortly after trying to return to the pitch following the surgery. That had to have contributed to his decline.
     
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  5. AmericanGunner

    Sep 7, 2003
    U.S.A.
    Early, early prediction based on probably transfers. I think the 2025-2026 season may be the first one where its a bonafide 3 team race at the top. Difference between 1-3, three to 5 points. I think City will get back to their dominating self. I can't see Pep having back to back bad seasons. He's either going to end up around 90 points or similar to this past season and if I were a betting man the former. Liverpool are stronger. We stay healthy with the buy are linked to, its scary.

    Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa will be close enough to worry but not close enough to win the title. The least of the top 3 would be vulnerable. Spurs with all their players healthy won't be bad actually. Man Utd is anyone's guess. Interesting to see if Palace maintain the last half the season and cup runs and build on that.
     
  6. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    I could see a Liverpool drop off, they will still be heavily reliant on VVD and Salah and an injury to one of both of them completely ********s their season, Wirtz or not. And they aren't getting the clean injury run again they got last year.

    Agree that City will be up and about, so we need to nail our transfers and get them bedded in. One thing we learned this year is you can't afford to drop points too early like we did last season.
     
  7. AmericanGunner

    Sep 7, 2003
    U.S.A.
    A lot of has happen for Liverpool to fall off. A Salah injury isn't a death knell. They have great players. Just like how Saka's injury wasn't a death knell for us. What killed us was no striker. Anyone can fall off any time. No one saw City declining coming. Logically, we have to assume both City and Liverpool will be back to their old selves next season.
     
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  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    City get Rodeo back. However the loss of their peak attacking midfielders with a couple of years is tough. Gundo is was a key player for them for years and KDB was the best 8.5 in europe IMO.
     
  9. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    The Ozil-haters don't want to admit how good he was in his prime, but the Ozil-stans don't want to admit how badly he fell off a cliff at the end. That muddies a lot of the debate about him.

    The FIFA Club World Cup gave us a 10-0 today today between a European giant and a club that cap their players at $90/week. What a competition.
     
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  10. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    You are right, we will see some big mismatches in this competition. Maybe it will kill the competition, which would probably be a good thing. Regarding Auckland City, they
    are basically an amateur side, their player salaries are capped at £66 per week. The payday they get for participating will basically quadruple their revenues this season.
     
  11. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Maybe, but they were basically the same team this season that they were last season. Injuries to Man City and us is what got them the title.
     
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  12. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    You could make an argument that a fresh perspective from Slot was exactly what Liverpool needed, that Klopp's message had grown a bit stale and for a season at least, they got the best of both managers' philosophies. As this team becomes more Slot's and less Klopp's, it will be interesting to see where they go. Is Slot really a great coach/manager, or was he exactly what they needed last season and the returns will diminish going forward?

    This is also a consideration if things stall out with Arteta.
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Slot as first team trainer probably has no significant alpha

    As Mebe pointed out, the season was most likely decided by injuries, and a swansong from Salah. Otherwise liverpool were about the same as Klopps final year. Slot could have actually been a bit worse than Klopp and they won the league because City and Arsenal didn't get 91 and 89 pts
     
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  14. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    It is possible the lack of injuries is down to something Slot did, perhaps lighter training sessions. Or more rotation for non-league matches (this may be completely wrong, I don't follow Pool close enough to know what they did)
     
  15. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    Hate to be pessimistic but have the same opinion of Pep no matter how much he's unlikeable. He's gonna wipe the floor clean next season and we're in trouble. Liverpool too. Each have managers with deeper experience and pedigree in winning trophies than Mikel.

    Our best shot went down the drain just like 2016. Hopefully I'm wrong obviously.
     
  16. AmericanGunner

    Sep 7, 2003
    U.S.A.
    Ozil was fantastic. I do think Wenger should have taken Fabregas back when he tried to. Too petty of Wenger. His excuse sounded reasonable in theory (He already had Ozil) but he was butt hurt about how Fabregas left and we could have used him. Fabregas would have been okay with a reduced role.

    Anyway, Ozil was a wonderful player with some great highlight reels. He did fall off considerably by the end. Fabregas would have maintained a fairly high level and take over.
     
  17. NorthBank

    NorthBank Moderator
    Staff Member

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just caught up with highlights of the CWC so far. And last night “our”Jorginho had a MOTM performance for Flamengo. Granted it was against a Tunisian club, but still… nice to see him get this opportunity to shine, and so quickly after we let him go.
     
  18. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched Fluminense - Dortmund today. What surprised by how much I enjoyed the match. Thiago Silva, man does not age.
     
  19. AmericanGunner

    Sep 7, 2003
    U.S.A.
    City had more than enough to challenge LFC. They just lost it mentally for whatever reason.

    For us it was a combination of:
    1. red cards 2. Odegaard, Saka, Havertz and Jesus being hurt. Saka the least impacted as Nwaneri filled in fairly well but still, he's not Saka...yet. 3. Not bringing in a striker in January. The striker didn't even have to top quality. Could have been a Championship or division one striker or an older experienced 30+ to share duties with Merino. 4. Sterling. We were unable to bring in a loan because of him. He tried hard but was of no use. Had we not brought him in on loan, we could have gotten a player in who had far more impact.

    I think we lost the title in December. We needed a perfect December. The games were winnable. LFC drew 2 games and we didnt capitalize. Even if Havertz didn't get injured we would have lost the title anyway I think. LFC were on a run and we weren't playing well enough to catch them. We definitely would have ended up with over 80 points and although LFC finished with 84, had they been pushed they'd be over 90 plus no question in my mind.
     
  20. AmericanGunner

    Sep 7, 2003
    U.S.A.
    Wirtz will have a far better team around him. He will be a problem. Moves very well on and off the ball.

     
  21. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    We went into the season knowing we were short, not just in striker, and it was silly to assume we wouldn't eventually be hit with injuries.

    We dropped way too many points after losing Odegaard and we saw our attack malfunction as a result.
    You were right that if we were fit and firing in December we make up points on Pool, and having Neto and Sterling be so poor hurt. Sterling especially because I wonder would we have gone for Rashford if we didn't have Sterling. He was decent at Villa and a lot better than Sterling was for us.
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Wirtz, along with Musiala are two of the best young players I have ever seen
     
  23. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    They lost due to their best players being injured or old. They stopped being able to defend and Foden wasn’t scoring worldies for fun anymore. Idk “what mentally for whatever reason” means when we saw it crater.
     
  24. Silva 5

    Silva 5 Member+

    Mar 10, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mudryk hit with a doping ban. Thank you Chelsea for hijacking that deal.
     
  25. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Really freaking annoying that Foden scoring worldies for fun and Son missing 1v1s handed City a title.
     
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