Victims of a Campaign- The Other Footy Teams Thread

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by GunneRy, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Were you in the meetings?

    Even if you’re correct that they made that conscious decision, it actually supports the point that was made by @ArsenalMetro.
     
  2. Serengeti_Boy

    Serengeti_Boy Member+

    Sep 15, 2009
    Serengeti, East Africa
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Tanzania
    Precisely. Henderson was always aging, Keita, Ox and Jones were all unreliable. Their attack was fixed by Klopp but he really neglected the midfield which is key in his system.

    But there is an element of bad luck in injuries. There is a case of having a fit front 3 who can outscore the opposition so the midfield issue is not that damming but that gamble had failed.
     
  3. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Klopps system got figured out and the players got tired

    salah fell off a cliff and so did Vvd
     
  4. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    I posted after they lost the CL final that they might struggle.

    They came back from it before but when it happened a second time, I wondered if people might think about leaving (which has also happened). People hang on who should have been moved out.

    On top of the team getting old
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    The great thing is, if you post about Klopp being found out every year for 10 years, eventually it comes true
     
  6. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    Joao Cancelo going on loan to Bayern Munich. He's played less than 180 minutes in their 6 league matches since the WC ended, but still find this surprising.
     
    AEAAFC96 repped this.
  7. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    The reality for clubs not owned by nation-states like Liverpool (and Arsenal) is accepting that success can't be sustained but it can come in waves. Buy some 21-23 year olds, develop them together, be competitive for 5-7 years, then start over and rebuild.

    Look at MLB, where the Dodgers and Yankees play the part of a City or Chelsea. Teams like the Cubs, Royals and Nats have won World Series in the last decade because they had a good wave of talent, but when the talent left the team fell apart and now they are in rebuild mode. (NFL and NBA are more sustainable due to the influence of individual superstars. An elite QB or a top 5 all-NBA player can sustain success for a decade and spending isn't as important due to salary caps).
     
  8. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    IMO Klopp is overrated, but that's neither here nor there. He is doing what he always does, run players in the ground while winning a few things here and there and then flopping because tactically there's no "There" there. I remember in the deepest darkest days of the pandemic being on Clubhouse and people going on like he was some all timer and I told them he is not any better then Ancelotti and everyone was up in arms. LOL EPL fans crack me up.
     
  9. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    FSG are a $7b behemoth, acting like they are the little sisters of the poor is so odd
     
  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    Something I've wondered, and Arsenal might be evidence of it, is whether this will go the way of Rugby franchises a little bit

    i.e. you have a few veteran stars on big money that the team is based around. These are players who don't get injured much and thanks to yoga and modern doping programmes, they play well into their 30s

    Then you have a core of younger talent, and basically a lot of young noobs - these players have lower wages

    otherwise as you say, it is hard to refresh, especially as you need to make top 4, but also age and injuries pile up. Liverpool gave a staggering wage bill
     
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    The point is there is no business model to justify the vast investments required.

    I really have no idea how Boehly is planning to generate any ROI on the 490m he has spent this season
     
  12. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    Oh I fully agree, but we have a sport that started off as a bunch of guys playing together after work or in civic orgs then it became a thing for rich guys to own and now it's a thing for uber rich guys to own and we somehow gotta figure out a way for them to make money its all kinda absurd but what isn't these days ya know?
     
  13. CarlosKaiser

    CarlosKaiser Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 30, 2018
    Kansas City
    I know nothing about rugby, but the NFL is this way. The two ways to win are young, cheap QB on a team with a ton of expensive talent surrounding him, or a superstar, expensive QB with a bunch of young, cheap talent around him. The Eagles are the first one with Hurts still on his rookie contract, the Chiefs are the second with Mahomes, having traded away Tyreek Hill in the offseason for draft picks because he was too expensive. And star QB's can play well into their late 30's or even early 40's and be successful whereas most other positions start to decline much earlier.
     
  14. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    You’re describing the Warriors, their key veterans, all in their 30s, were drafted by the Warriors, but the cost of keeping them from becoming free agents has been max contracts that have resulted in an outrageous luxury tax bill (the cost of exceeding the NBA salary cap). Aside from a brief fling with Kevin Durant, the big three have generous been complimented by relatively cheap NBA free agents and a handful of young draftees. Injuries have piled up with all three missing significant time to injury the last three seasons.
     
    AEAAFC96 and The Jitty Slitter repped this.
  15. leppercut

    leppercut Member+

    Oct 10, 2006
    SLC and Anchorage
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looking like Boehly is getting Enzo. 115 million pounds I've see?
     
  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    Interesting

    One reason this happens in rugby is the amount of injuries - so you will have a young breakout star at 20 who will be amazing for 2 years before he gets a serious injury - these is a fair turnover in these players

    It's kind of amazing at arsenal - the entire Emery team is already gone apart from Xhaka
     
  17. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you think ROI is a bigger factor for him than vanity?
     
  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    Preach
     
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Namibia
    but surely the hedge fund bros at Clearlake need some returns?
     
  20. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've always liked Klopp but that's neither here nor there. Obviously he has cycles of fallowness and success. And this season they're the "victims" of an aging squad, lost/diminished strikers, key injuries, etc.

    BUT, as much as Pool fans are bummed right now, sitting in a tie for 9th place, don't you think that they'd do it all over with Klopp? "Winning a few things here and there" included:

    1. First league title in 30 years!
    2. Second UCL title, and first in 14 years
    3. More minor trophies like: Club WC, Super Cup, FA Cup, League Cup
     
  21. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    See here is the thing, good managers do it one time, great managers do it multiple times them are the rules. I think Klopp is good, but they make it out like he's some all timer. I mean Chelsea won the CL and CWC is Tuchel an all timer? I mean what are we doing here?

    So continuing on, great managers refresh/rebuild teams as well. Again the guy is decent/good but not what the media and LFC fans make him out to be. That's all
     
  22. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    It's really crazy, but I've come to the conclusion long ago that all this high level football is just tax evasion/money laundering, a half a dozen of one, six of the other
     
    The Jitty Slitter repped this.
  23. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One might assume that, but might vanity also apply to PE investors? I'm sure you know this way better than I, but there are other prominent hedge funds that own big teams, or at least big chunks of big teams. ACM/Redbird/Elliott comes to mind. Are many/most of those other investors seeing or expecting ROI from their footy investments? It's an honest question.
     
  24. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    No. Money is their vanity.
     
  25. DutchCane

    DutchCane Member+

    Apr 6, 2004
    New York, New York
    They are but IMO, and from talking to guys in that space its about selling at the high, which is why a lot of them take larger positions in lower valuation clubs. There's a guy who does this for a UK based firm they are currently going crazy buying Italian Serie B clubs
     

Share This Page