Ternana is an obvious one as well. Most of your list is generally accurate Battigoal but there are quite a few mistakes.
Fiorentina: gemellaggi con Verona, Torino, Catanzaro e amicizie con Livorno (gruppo Settebello con Sporting) Inter: gemellaggio con Lazio Lazio: gemellaggio con Inter e amicizie con Arezzo e Verona Parma: gemellaggi con Spezia, Sampdoria, Empoli, Bordeaux Verona: gemellaggi con Fiorentina e Sampdoria e amicizie con Triestina, Lazio, Chelsea
Napoli is apolitical. Piacenza has one right group; the others are neutral. Lazio and Roma both have left-wing minorities. Are you sure Como is right-wing? I don't know anything about them but I think they displayed an anti-war banner and peace signs at a game before the US invasion of Iraq. A member of Ultras Curva Nord (Bari) told me they are apolitical but are nationalists.
I believe this is still true. Juve also has very good relations with Den Haag. Ancona: Collettivo Curva Nord Ancona Atalanta: Brigate Neroazzurre Atalanta Brescia: Apolitical Cosenza: Supporters Empoli: Desperados, Rangers Fiorentina: Apolitical, very mixed...CAV historically far-left but it's younger members are far-right Genoa: Fossa dei Grifoni Modena: Brigate Gialloblù Milan: Apolitical...Fossa dei Leoni historically left, Brigate Rossonere historically right, Commandos Tigre are right-wing Perugia: Armata Rossa, Ingrifati (left), Brigata Ultrà (right) Pistoiese: Apolitical to my understanding Torino: Ultras Granata (left), Granata Korps (right) Venezia: Have left, right and neutral groups
milans brn are 100 percent not historiclly right wing. they are historically left wing. and i'm not so sure about the right wing stuff at torino. venezias curva is left-wing. the whole curva. the biggest left-wing curvas are livorno and ternana. the tosacana is a big area of left-wing groups like livorno, pisa, fiorentina etc.
I think the history behind the mix of politics and the (Italian) ultra scene is interesting. I'm amazed that it hasn't led to a tremendous amount of (deadly) violence though.
Yeah, it is pretty interesting. It can often be a pretty accurate reflection of socio-economic realities in a given area. Truthfully, there is a lot you can tell about a place through its soccer, not just the political and/or ultra scene. For example, Napoli ultras are apolitical since Naples as a city is historically apolitical and suspicious of politicians as a whole. It's just something ingrained in our being.
You are correct, I didn't word that properly. Brigate was obviously a loose imitation of the Red Brigades. Many groups with Brigate in their name have left-wing roots. But today most members tend towards the right (although it's officially apolitical). I had the displeasure of meeting a Nazi skinhead who is BRN. Someone needs il Barone to clarify! I'm positive Granta Korps are right-wing. What about Vecchi Ultrà? Ultras Unione, Brigata Venezia etc. are either sinistra or apolitica. So I think I'm accurate on this one. True. Carraresse and Montevarchi are two smaller clubs with very left-wing support. Fiorentina: Who is left? Settebello, Onda d'Urto, Campi 999, Collettivo Autonomo Viola, Direttivo XXVIII Aprile, Valdisieve, Gruppo Fiorenza, Gruppo Piagge, Gruppo Signa, Inviolabili, Marasma - Far as I know they are all apolitical. Of course they have both left-wing and right-wing members. Livorno: Brigate Autonome Livornesi, Vitulano obviously... Pisa: I have Rangers and Sconvolts as left
ultras unione apolical? i thought that they were founder or co-founder of http://www.footballfansunited.org/everlast/englisch/intro.htm ultras unione/rude - thats the way a smart group work. they do a lot for immigrants etc. their social input in the whole community (that includes mester) is huge! they are total left wing ! although they don't use stupid che guevara flags and stuff. great curva. you've met some member of the brn? you are from milano? i heard that rumor too, that some members tried to change the politically direction of the group, but a couple months ago some german ultra, who is kinda an expert of italian footie, told me that the second ring (and specially the brn) thought about the idea of a extreme left-curva (stalinflags ect.)... the first ring of the curva-sud (C.Tigres and rams) are drifting into the right.
No, I said Venezia has left, right and apolitical groups. Ultras Unione (the main group) is left-wing, Vecchi Ultrà is right and Brigata Venezia is apolitical. But you're right, the majority is anti-racist and anti-fascist. I'm not from Milano but I've been many times. I actually met the BRN ultras when they were in New York though. Years ago the second ring had Che Guevara flags and quite a few Redskins. But now politics are officially banned in the Curva Sud. I hope that changes eventually... Are you Brigade Nord or Ultras Hannover?
Why? I also think it is interesting to look at the Italian Ultras and their connection to politics, but in the end my opinion is clearly that politics should have nothing to do with football, except for cities where pretty much the whole population is united in a political idea (prime example of course: Livorno). Fans of a club should be united, and not seperated by political ideas, as it is the case in many many curvas especially in Italy. Just look at AS Roma: first the left-wing group Commando Ultra Curva Sud was leading the Curva Sud, then they got pushed out by other groups, and now the AS Roma Ultras were kicked out because of their apolitical stance. Currently the curva is just as right-wing as Lazio, and the two fanscenes get more and more united in that idea; consequence: at the derby they work together against the police and put the actual match more and more into the background. While all this is happening, the atmosphere at the derby is getting worse. For many, politics has top priority it seems. Other example: in Paris the right-wing Boulogne Boys often have fights at away matches with the Tigris Mystic, which have a lot of immigrants/arabs/blacks in their group. As for the Brigate Rossonere, I think they are a bit controversial. I say this mainly because they do not seem to show any clear political determination, but on the other hand their logo is the same skeleton head the german SS used in WWII. I'm wondering if this is an "unfortunate selection" or not. Whatever, the Curva Sud in total is not political ("Neither red, nor black - only red-black"), which I like.
It's different for different people. For me, I'm a communist and a skinhead and I can't and will never hide that. I can't suddenly become apolitical and dress a different way just because I'm going to a football match. If it's a big part of who you are you can't be expected to hide the patches on your jacket and cover-up tattoos. A conflict will always arise when there are two sizeable factions who want to go in seperate directions. So it's not a conscious choice, you have to pick a side and fight it out. You can't tolerate fascist banners and racist chants in your curva if you are against them. So if the stronger majority of people feel a certain way they will win out. Then the curva will take on a certain political stance (even if it is only anti-something.) Of course there are very real social and historical reasons for a (general) political ideology of a fan base. Obviously people have lives outside of football but it's not easy to leave politics behind once you go in the turnstile. As you alluded to, if you are a member of a political organization which has a strong base in the city it is as much a part of it as is the club. I'm not against a united fan base if it works but if you can't hide your political philosophy either. __________________________ What do you expect the Boulogne Boys and Tigris Mystic to do? Make love not war? I don't agree with ignoring the problem or signing a pact with racist goons. It's the duty of TM and all other anti-racist/anti-fascist PSG ultras to take them out if BB can't tolerate Arabs, blacks and immigrants in the stadium. *I also saw that Irridicubili attended the capo of Boys funeral... Putting aside the fact I hate both teams , I don't see how the derby atmosphere is suffering (that will never change, politics or not.) If they fight the police instead of each other I don't mind. I always thought it made more sense if alliances and rivalries were based (at least partly) on politics. It'd be a lot clearer if there were "anti-communist" and "anti-fascist" battle lines.
I've heard that pointed out before but I think it was chosen for intimidation reasons, certainly not out of admiration for the SS. The skull and bones seems to be very popular in general. People have also claimed of alleged fascist lyrics in their anthem and have looked too hard into the fact they raise three fingers when they sing it. What we can be sure of is the Curva Sud is apolitical, with FdL tending to the left (both present and historically) as do most groups in the second tier, except BRN (tending to be right) and the bottom ring is definitely to the right (Commandos Tigre, Rams, Sconvolts etc.).
I can understand your points well. I just think that often the fanscene is not united in that political idea and therefore a lot of people are "seperated" from the Curva, which in general is bad. And I think there is a big difference from showing your own political stance, to using the whole curva as a political instrument. And obviously in Italy it is in 90% of all cases the right-wing fans who seize that control. Still, as I said, I can understand your opinion. Here are some pics from the funeral, Banda Noantri of Lazio was also there, and some AS Roma players: http://www.sofiacaligiuri.it/filmati/fotocalcio2.php?partita=Funerale+Paolo+Zappavigna As for the rivalries: Italy doesn't need that political aspect simply because historically the regional rivalries are very deep and big anyway. Just look at Livorno and Pisa: both are clearly left-wing, but they hate each other more than anybody else.
I've never seen Basel ultras tied to politics but I thought I remember reading about some of it's hools (Nazi skinheads) being involved in riots after playing Zurich. Is that correct?
That's true. The history of the clashes and regional rivalries can't just be overturned and forgotten. Some of the biggest curvas are political though. I don't think people are holding back on whether to join the ultras or not based on that. You either have the mentality or you don't. I've talked to ultras of Juventus, Inter and Lazio who are left-wing, apolitical (or at least not far-right) and can't stand it. But they stay in the curva and do what they can to influence things they way they want. I think the biggest reason is: the stadium is a very public place where you have the chance to express your views and are joined by dozens, hundreds or thousands who share them.
we were present to Paolo's funeral because he was an Ultras, before being anything else. Also, it is a lie that roma and lazio fans don't fight each other, in the last derby there were few minutes of hand to hand fights between roma and lazio fans, without police's interference. Regards, Andrea. IN UN TEMPO DOVE REGNA DENARI C'E` ANCORA CHI CARICA A BASTONI! ultraslazio...prima...durante...dopo! www.UltrasMad.tk