Not that you asked but... Expansion/Stadia 1. The city that really seems to have the real desire to get (back) the next expansion team is San Jose - your passion is evident 2. Would the USL make a good fit in the model of minor league affiliates as in MLB? It seems like it could work. 3. Don't consider any city without a very strong lead on an SSS
#2 would be good for MLS to happen, however USL sees itself as the future of pro soccer in the eyes of many, and who are we to say which is correct? One could argue that USL has a number of teams that are much more successful and much better supported than MLS teams. I think the one main difference is the low scale in which USL does it's transactions for players and a generally lower calibre of play. Their footprint in the U.S. (USL that is) cannot be ignored.
Don't worry about what the fans here think. The owners (in nearly every league) don't give two craps about that anyway. (In some cases, one is given, no more) Some USL staffers give wink/nudge comments to fans to that effect, but I don't see any concerted effort to push the envelope. Francisco Marcos has emphatically stated more than once that USL-1 is second division in America. I tend to take that answer straight.
MLS should embrace USL and make it thier relagation league after the MLS has added about 5 more teams. bottom 2 teams drop down to USL and top 2 teams from USL get promoted to MLS. the MLS expansion to 18 teams wont be for another 6 years atleast in my opinion. MLS should start preparing USL teams now for the inevitable merger and tell them all to start making stadium upgrades and increased capacity. that way they wont have to tell the USL 6 years from now about it. there is definatley markets for 36-40 teams in the US.
The problem as literally DOZENS if not more posters have pointed out in various threads advocating pro-rel in the US, is that American Franchise owners will not accept such a model. It's a completely foreign concept to most Americans, and there is no real reason to assimilate that concept into American Soccer. Especially not until this country has proven that it can support 16 - 1st Division teams, let alone additional 2nd and 3rd division teams. And by support I mean: not lose millions of dollars a year, improve the on-field product, gain media exposure at least commensurate with the NHL, have every team in their own SSS, producing youth programs of value etc. Yes, MLS is picking up ground in most of those areas, but I don't see them meeting all of those goals until 2014 at the earliest. Then you'd have to begin focusing on the 2nd and 3rd tier clubs in USL... in other words, a long effing time from now.
As evidenced by the aversion to team ownership in a league system that does have promotion and relegation, e.g. the EPL, by American Franchise owners... Oh. Wait. Forget that.
Which would be a fine point except that no fans in NY, LA, NE, or Chicago are going to support a minor league franchise.... and no matter what you say about 1st division v. 2nd division, the US fan is going to see that you're not in MLS and call you a minor league team. I'd invest in Liverpool and ManU too knowing that the odds of them going down are about 1mil:1 and either way you know that you have a name that sells. US owners are buying into English football because it's a good investment. Prove to me that buying into a potential second division team in America makes any financial sense and I'll buy into promotion/rel. I'm not going to spend 100mil on a stadium and pay salaries, operational expenses, etc only to be in the 2nd division next year and have 2,000 fans at my games.
Bippity-boppity-boo! You don't know any of that. You can assume that and you'd probably be right, but you don't know it. Besides, I didn't say otherwise. I only spoke to the claim that American Franchise owners wouldn't invest in a pro/rel system. That's simply and provably false. Again - You don't know any of that to be true. The fact that a handful of billionaires decided to throw a bunch of money into soccer knowing that they'd lose millions and millions for years and years proves to me that I have no idea what people with a lot of money are willing to do. Neither do you.
No one can make certain claims but the chances of what the poster says happening are EXTREMELY good. There is no way NY or LA fans are going to support a team in the minor leagues. In fact I'm pretty sure Manchester United fans wouldn't be flocking to the stadium if they were not in the Premier League. Ofcourse that is not going to happen in a million years but the chances of the NYRB or LA Galaxy being relegated to the second tier will be extremely great since there is a salary cap system in place, which means teams will go through a cycle of competitiveness like how they do in the NFL.
Say USL were to be made the MLS' relegation league. But considering the quality of certain USL stadiums, whether they are up to snuff as to what MLS are wanting as a minimum for their league, I don't know that we could accept somebody who plays on a high school field with 3,000 bench seats playing in MLS. Even in England they give lower-division clubs only so long to revamp their stadiums if they expect to retain the right to play at the upper levels. And I think should a relegation-promotional thing happen here, which is very unlikely anyway because of the franchise system we have here, there should be similar expectations made. And then the very fact that many USL clubs don't have near the revenue to be able to support a club playing at the top level, it would be pointless to promote anybody who can't even hypothetically stay up there. Even say there was league revenue to be shared in after being promoted, would it be enough for them to improve their facilities and pay for better players? I don't think so. Not at this point.
Another related subject... Why do MLS clubs insist on building soccer specific stadiums in the same mold? Despite their different facades, they all appear to be the same: 18 - 25k capacity. Why not take a page from some of the USL's soccer stadiums - start small with room to grow? http://www.marinerssoccer.com/whereweplay/110419.html http://www.atlantasilverbacks.com/park/index.php?opt=viewpage&type=html&id=00015 For example, Kansas City averages anywhere from 10 to 15k in attendance each year. Why not save some money and build a 10 -12k capacity stadium? When the time is right (i.e. the team profits), the team can expand the stadium. One of the great things about European stadiums is their uniqueness. Some are big, some are small, some are old, some are new. The point is they're not all cut from the same mold. They're tailored to each team's individual needs. When proposed stadium designs are more realistic to the individual team's needs, and not based on speculation (future attendance, x number of concerts, etc.), local and state government may be more inclined to throw public money their way. On the other hand, team owners may be able to build the initial stadium on their own dime, and then seek public money when it's time to expand.
I completely agree with you Eaashley79. KC doesn't need a large stadium right now. If they had a 10-15k staduim it would cost less and fill up. I think players and fans alike would rather be in a filled to capacity smaller staduim than a half empty large stadium. Plus the owners would cover the expenses of a smaller stadium much quicker than a larger one and could expand once a strong fan base is produced (selling out every game for a few years).
Look at the Clubs that American investors have purchased... are any of them in danger of being relegated? Whenever you hear of Americans looking to purchase an EPL side, it's ManU, Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City... teams which usually end in the top half of the table, and in no real danger of being relegated. If MLS had relegation to the USL, LA would be playing in USL next season. Do you believe Beckham would come to America to play for a relegated side, against teams which play before crowds of between 3k-12k? Logical thought obviously isn't one of your strong suits.
Without a doubt. Question is at what level? I'm more than sure that there are several teams in the USL which right now could be in the MLS. Merger? mmm that's a tricky situation. I'm sure that the MLS franchise owners would be wearing of how their profit sharing contracts would be affected.
Relegation Do we even really need relegation? Is there any advantage to it anyway? I can see where relegation makes sense in other countries, where there are competitive soccer teams on every corner. But that's not the case. If it were in proportion we would then have about 200 first division teams. At any case maybe its something that we shouldnt put any worry into. It's not going to make the league any better or worse.
Would San Jose's stadium truly be an SSS? They'd be sharing with a college football team. By MLS playoff time, their field will look like Houston Dynamo's, with the gridiron lines, yard number markings and painted end zone right in front of goal. Whoop-tee, I can't wait to see that, it will look great on tv, too!
It's just a matter of will and effort. If the teams and groundstaff wanted to get rid of the paint it could be done. It's just a case of water, brushing and squeegieing sp?
Re: Relegation Promotion/relegation is not possible yet, but as this league gets bigger and more established, I think it would make a HUGE difference (and it would definitely make the league better). If combined with a single table, the regular season would mean so much, every game would count - and I think you would see far greater excitement. Plus lower division teams that are committed to making a splash would replace the cheap-ass upper division teams operating in bargain-basement style, thus improving the quality of league play in the long run.
Re: Relegation I still havent decided about relegation but a single table with the top 8 teams going to a play off Qtr Finals Semi Finals 3rd place Finals
How about a kind of Champions League between the USL, MLS and maybe Mexican/other Western Hemisphere leagues during the season? I do think that "promoting" one or two of the USL teams to the MLS can be a double edged sword. Having a strong franchise like Rochester come up would be good for the MLS (could be the Green Bay Packers of the league, small market, great fans) but that could cripple the USL losing one of it's best franchises.
Many people on these boards have suggested merging the two leagues. With the stronger teams going to MLS and the smaller teams merging with the PDL and so on.
Re: Relegation Promtion/relegation would give the league much more excitment. In the EPL some of the most exciting games are between two teams fighting to not get relegated. It will bring a lot of new fans into the league who keep saying that soccer is boring.
Re: Relegation when you have a division below MLS which contains loads of teams financially capable of "making a splash" if promoted then it's worth thinking about. Until then, it's not.