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Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by laddi, Oct 24, 2003.
can't complain about that, although I'm sure some will.
Imagine a United team with 4 Americans starting, that be something.
I would rather see him go to a club like BLACKBURN or Charlton where he would have a better chance of cracking the First Team in less time. I don't know who is interested in him besides ManUre, but if he goes there I doubt he would see the pitch as a first teamer for a long, long time.
He is like 16-17 now the contracts those kids (academy) get only last til they are around 20 so if he dosent think its working out he can leave (if he goes to utd). If he is good enough he should make it and be a better player than if he went to a lesser club with staff not as good as the one at utd. If he dosent make it at utd he will have gotten top quality coaching that will get him in most teams squads.
From everything I read, he was our second best player at the u17 WC, but surprised the most. Somebody who has seen him play said that he reminds him of Edgar Davids, with his mix of offensive flare and defensive bite. If he goes to United it could be huge.
Oh and we could have 5 starters with United. (Adu, Spector, Howard, Cooper, Szetela) Hell, if we only had two or three we would out number the starters who are English.
I found this EXTREMELY interesting from the article.
Personally, I like him going to United. They are pretty committed to developing their youth. And they're good at it. Even if a player can't quite cut it at ManU (Greening), they get a good foundation for a solid professional career.
Well, i don't think that anyone should be worried about Szetela and whether he goes to ManU versus another lesser club. I think that ManU's youth coaching is a bit overstated. The reason ManU is at the top of the heap is because they have more cash flow to buy better foreign players ........ NOT because they have better youth coaching. I'm sure that Blackburn and Tottenham and Newcastle or whomever else could do a comparable job. Of course, if he breaks into the full squad at ManU, it will mean a lot more to his career to be a name on a big squad like United because of the exposure.
At best your post is just plain stupid. Go look in the history books Utd have won the most youth cups in england which is THE cup to win for under 19´s in England. No other team of any quality has as many home grown players in their squad in the premiership.
Since you mention money and how they can buy foreign players well they can also buy top quality foreign coaches. Few teams in the premiership and europe have a facility to match theirs.
You might want to check some facts before you post stuff like that
I'm the first to reply to this post with KIROVSKI? Or THORINGTON?
Just playing, of course. I'd be stoked if this kid signed with ManU.
number 1, because someone disagrees with your opinion, it doesn't make their opinion stupid. only stupid people believe that. number 2, your post doesn't adequately address my point. Uniteds recent history shows you that they have won the league 8 or so times in the last 11 years (or something like that). was that because of coaching? or was that because they have the best players due to the fact that they are able to buy them? I'd say it's the latter. and it's the same at the youth level. their youth are better because they are the bigger name club and they can attract the better players as a result. now that Chelsea is the big spender on the block, let's see how long it is over the coming years before Chelsea suddenly becomes the best. I just plain disagree with you, and it doesn't make either you or I stupid, despite what you may believe.
It isnt about disagreeing or agreeing. I cant come and say oh 2+2=5 and then say oh its just a matter of opinion. Some things are just plain facts
The teams you mentioned have produced over the last few years carr, campbell and duff maybe a few more players but those are the ones i remember now.
Was it because of coaching?
Yes it mostly was. From 95 the team had 5-6 players in the starting 11 that were homegrown and mixed with that were great buys such as schmeichel, cantona, keane and irwin.
What facts have you got to back up your claim that its because they have bought the best? Utd have really only won the league once since spending big and that was last season
"their youth are better because they are the bigger name club and they can attract the better players as a result."
By that logic no "big" team which has produced players has achieved that because they have good coaching but because they are a big team. So i suppose madrid and ajax are also not very good at producing players?
Since 95 no team in England has produced as many good quality players as utd and even in the last few years they have still done a decently good job compared to most teams. Its not only the quality of players they produce but the quality of persons too. You dont see as many of their players in all these troubles you hear about
Well, you had to know SOMEONE would bring up Kirovski, eh?
No, Man Utd has the highest numbers of starters from their youth academy than any top team in the world.
More than AJAX?
Possible.... the new Ajax players are mostly brought in.
We have a fundamental disagreement that we won't agree on. and that centers on your meaning of the word "produce". in your eyes, ManU has made these players great. In my eyes, Manu brought in the highest quality players to begin with and continued their development through the system. Does coaching help? of course it does. but does the fact that ManU "produces" more players that go on to play at high levels elsewhere prove to me that they are better at coaching. no, it doesn't, because they are picking up players who would probably do fine if they went to most good youth teams. of just the Americans, ManU is picking up Spector, Szetela, Cooper, and apparently have been hot after Adu. dang, there is a case to be made that 3 of those guys are the USA's best u-17 youth. and until Chelsea joined the fray with Adu, there was hardly anyone bidding against them because of the fiscal dynamics. Look, I'm not saying that ManU's coaching is bad. I'm sure that its excellent. I'm simply saying that the money changes the dynamics of how you can compare one team to another, and there are lots of teams who have coaching that would advance Szetela's growth to where it needs to be.
Ok they dont work some miracles. They dont pick up the least talented players and make them into some of thw best what they do do is give some of the best training a player can get in this world.
And the reasons they are and other english clubs are looking so much abroad.
1: These countries are starting to produce quality players
2: They put a rule that clubs can only get players that live in a certain distance or they will have to pay alot of money. That reulted in the top teams looking abroad
Scholes, Beckham, the Nevilles, Butt, O'Shea, and Giggs came out of the youth system, probably more, but that list is off the top of my head. Currently you have Fletcher who is breaking his way onto the team as well as Kieran Richardson and a few other members of the reserve team who have been loaned out to lower division clubs to get 1st team playing time. Then United buys alot of players who aren't big time yet but have huge taletn and potential like Howard and Ronaldo. Then on occasion they will buy a Veron or Keane who they spend big for. When Keano was signed a decade ago, he broke the transfer record (aroudn 5 or 6 million dollars IIRC). So yes United can buy the best (when they are finished products or still a little raw), but they also can produce the best.
Ah, yes, the myth of the ManU youth system.
Those players you mention, with the exception of O'Shea, all made their pro debuts by 1995. Who else has broken into the first team on a consistent basis since then? Maybe Wes Brown's been unlucky with injuries, but there hasn't been much top talent produced by their youth system in that time. Is Jonathan Greening really the best they can do?
Eight seasons and one starter from the youths isn't especially impressive.
And Stam and Barthez and Van Nistelrooy and Forlan and Ferdinand and Kleberson...yeah, they spend a little money "on occasion."
To be fair about it, I'm sure it's extremely difficult to be a top club and give youths a chance. There's so much on the line in every game that I can understand managers being reluctant to give young players much more than the odd Worthless Cup appearance.
If young players really want to get the best youth training, they should swallow some ego and go to a place like Nantes or Auxerre.
United tracking another US kid
Manchester United are believed to be pursuing their interest in American starlet Danny Szetela. The 16-year-old is a team-mate of world football's brightest talent Freddy Adu and United are attempting to land them both.
o´shea, brown and id say fletcher at the end of this season is pretty good in 4-5 years. Fletcher and brown would be much more established if it werent for terrible luck with injuries
Academies would be delighted with a good player every 2 years.
Just after the famous group came through they certainly didnt create such stars but the reasons for that might be that youngsters didnt think they had a chance, the youth coach didnt work as hard as they had a set team for the next 5-7 years and the rule changes
why do you mention nantes or auxerre?
Nantes and Auxerre produce some of the best talent in the world, year in and year out.
The Dutch clubs would be a great experience for the kid, most of the players speak English and battle for playing time won't be as great.
Just my two cents
just to add utd do have an agreement with nantes and lisbon (and many more teams). Which should help both parties training regime and style and loan players to and from each other.
So who knows Szetela could join utd and go on a season loan in nantes
IIRC, United has an agreement with Lisbon, but I'm not 100% sure on that.