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Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by kool-aide, May 9, 2011.
They look very, very good. This is not the same German team from 2008. US stands no chance.
agreed fawcett. do you see the numbers they have attacking? and they all look like beasts. but technical beasts though.
they will tear our central mids and d's apart....perhaps.
but i will say the usa girls are pretty bad ass stubborn and tough. so, there's always a hope.
i thought is aw the brazil highlights on this thread - but it might have been on the international thread.
That's what Sundhage's gone for, and it's been the U.S. girls major weapon for a while now too. If USA lose in Germany, their going to make any team really have to work for it.
The U.S. is the only team that could take a beating for 90 mins and end up wining or drawing a game, all because of superior grit and determination.
they do look very good.
the fact is, germany are the favorites to win this tournament. they are the defending champs and they're playing at home.
i always hesitate to make final judgments based on highlights against another team tho. i wouldn't say the u.s. stands no chance.
i did notice the numbers they had attacking. i wonder if they would do the same with arod and hao playing well and looking to kill them on the counter.
But after watching these I'll go out on a limb here and say that if Cox were on that field for Italy, none of those highlights happen.
If Italy had anyone assigned to play the outside, they don't seem to have managed to even get in the picture. Defend a team with Heather O'Reilly on it that way and you'll give up five goals in the first half...
Germany will look very good because they are very good.
They look godlike in those highlights because they clearly were allowed to run absolutely wild on the wing in the last third.
I guess they just wanted to present the away jersey to the public and asked Italy to play in white.
italy seems to have acquiesced in more ways than one.
I had to look up that word in a "English - German" dictionary, but it fits perfectly.
Well, they can't possibly meet the Germans until the semifinals and maybe not until the finals. They will a lot of obstacles to overcome before they can even think about Germany.
The amazing thing is that the Germans have lost exactly three matches in the past two years, all to the United States. In fact, very few teams have even played them close. Australia lost 2-1 to Germany late last year. Italy and Iceland played them close in the 2009 Euros. Other than that, all of their matches have pretty much been blowouts.
The Germans scored all of their goals in the Italy match, except the own goal, in the second half after they took Prinz, Grings, Bartusiak, and Behringer out. It was the newer wave of young players they have that did all the scoring.
It was my hope that Germany's vulnerability might be that their striker corps was getting a bit long in the tooth... Probably the last WC for their starting strikers. However, their younger replacements look pretty hot. I was particularly impressed by what a professional job the team did of getting numbers forward and crossing the box in heavy traffic. Lots of very nice touches and tons of targets in the box!
In fairness, the USWNT might also have looked like they walked upon the water against that Italian squad (that day). We'll see how things shape when everyone is up against the sharp edge.
I wish the best for our gals. The oddsmakers have Germany as heavy favorites. Team Germany understands, far better than the average US fan, that the WCC is the only contest that remotely matters to serious soccer fans or players. They have won it twice and now they defend it at home: They are the champions of the world! Anyone who suggests differently is (IMO) just crazy-- the WC is what it is about--I don't feel there can be any serious question. If we can upset them in Frankfurt (probably in the semis on 7/13) that would be a huge coup for Team USA, and one that I hope we might win on pure grit and passion, rather than on careful strategic planning and player development (Just IMO). I think, as do many other posters here, that there are things that might have been done to better position us for this test, but hey, too late now. "Strength and honor..." Best to the gals-- Go USA!
Well said post UNC4EVER,
Personally I need a break from the squabbles and negativity that sometimes seem to overwhelm the forum. I agree that Pia has made some grave errors but at this point, none of us can do anything about it and we just have to accept what we have right now. I think for what its worth the US women on this squad have a lot of heart and determination and I really think Abby Wambach wants to win the World Cup, don't you?
Pia should read that and some of the people on here. youth is served.
I think that's a problem all the fans of big teams have.
Germany or the USA belong to the favorites to win the cup, but no fan wants to say "We are the best, we will surely win the cup", because that would sound arrogant. Instead they turn around 180° and talk bad about their own team to lower the expectations. After all it's better to be "surprised" by the better performance of the own team than to be dissappointed, that they couldn't live up to the hype.
You know it's really weird when I read on this forum things like:
- Pia Sundhage is the worst coach ever
- our squad is bad
- the wrong players are in the starting eleven
- Germany/Brazil/Norway would beat us 3:0 with ease!
and then go to a German forum about women football and read:
- Silvia Neid is the worst coach ever
- our squad is bad
- the wrong players are in the starting eleven
- USA/Brazil/Norway would beat us 3:0 with ease!
I am pretty sure it's the same for Brazilian or Norwegian fans.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer to be a little pessimistic as well, but I don't think we need to expect the Apocalypse, just because our teams had one or more matches where they didn't win by at least 5 goals and allowed more than zero goal scoring opportunities for the opponent.
What young players should be on the the US WWC roster that are not already? I would consider ARod, Cheney, Heath, O'Hara and Morgan all to be good young players (turing aged 22 to 24 this year). Engen (23) could also be added. Who did Pia miss? Maybe Becky Edwards but I don't see anyone else out there.
Fabiana, if you are talking about the one on the right. There's also Maurine on the left, but given I'm not sure she will hold on to her spot in light of the superb form Rosana showed in the second half.
Who has Pia really given a chance to? Rodriguez and Cheney came up under Ryan originally. Heath was called into camp while Ryan was coach, although she didn't get her first cap until Pia came along. Even Nogueira capped before Pia became coach. Of the other young players, most of barely gotten a few minutes in a couple of games, with the only exception being Morgan.
O'Hara 5 caps, 224 minutes.
Nogueira 5 caps (4 caps since 2007 for 111 minutes).
Engen 2 caps, 43 minutes.
Klingenberg 2 caps, 20 minutes.
Taylor 2 caps, 101 minutes.
Nairn 2 caps, 16 minutes.
Leroux 1 cap, 4 minutes.
Harris, Naeher, Edwards, Mewis, Marshall, etc. none.
This is our next generation of players, like it or not. They have gotten a total of 18 caps and 519 minutes under Pia. Morgan has certainly gotten a good chance, but the other young players haven't. Considering we won the U-20 title less than three years ago, wouldn't you think we would have more young players getting more caps on the senior team by now?
Contrast that with the group of players who are now 25-28 years old and the number of caps they had by the time they were 24 years old. Looking at a program for the 2007 WC, Chalupny already had 42 caps, Kai had 27, Lopez/Cox had 22, Osborne had 42, O'Reilly had 61, Tarpley had 71. Danesha Adams, Marian Dalmy, Jen Branam, Yael Averbuch, Amy LePeilbet, Megan Rapinoe, India Trotter, Kacey White, Rodriguez, Cheney, and Nogueira had already capped by the 2007 WC.
Goodness knows I'm the last person to sing Greg Ryan's praises and I certainly don't want to go back in that direction, but at least he gave a chance to younger players.
Part of the difference is approach. If you go to almost any of the international forums, you will read the same thing over and over. The United States takes competitions like Algarve too seriously, while other countries use it as a training ground to get a look at young players and winning or losing isn't as important to them.
I'm like most of the rest of the people on this forum. Pessimistic or optimistic, I will be cheering for our team all the way, but that doesn't mean I will be looking at this team through rose-colored glasses all the time either.
CK that whole post was just beautiful! It is very easy to come down on Ryan for some of the tactics he used and the big WC2007 implosion, but he really did do a great job of bringing in new faces. Some of whom became staples in the 08 Olympics win. I often wonder if as WC07 got closer if he felt the pressure from the team and from the federtation to put some players over others. (That's another topic).
Many of those young women could be the new faces of our team. There will be alot of familiar faces who are not going to be able to make it to the next World Cup. I read an article yesterday that talked about the younger players on the team. I will wait and see how it all goes down.
One point I got from it was "Yeah they have potential to be really good, but right now their job is to ride the bench." Rampone says that there's more players coming in and out than when she played (which my be true, but the core group of these players have been the same for a year or so). She also alludes that players now have perform at a higher level faster, which I chuckle at because I'm like that's all and well but how do you expect them to do that if when you play internationals you always play the starters who have LOADS of experience. I do think friendlies and non major/qualifiying tournaments should be more about getting players experience and just focus on compeating rather than bringing in the all stars and winning.
For the most part I haven't really seen any negativity, just doubt and concern. I do think it would be easier to be more confident if 07 would have at least gotten a silver and the actual pace and tactics of play showed promise and appeared to be on the level with the rest of the world. I had the heaviest rose colored glasses on the last go around because it was my first Women's one, but I am no longer as naive as I once was. I wish them well as many do, but you can't be too foolish.
Yes but much of the difference is what the two inherited. Ryan came in 2005 has to deal with the retirement of the Foudy/Hamm era players after the 2004 Olympics and move into a new era while Pia actually inherited a strong core of players still in their prime like Wambach, Solo, Boxx etc...
The following players received their first caps under Pia: Buehler, Bock, C. DiMartino, Heath, Krieger, Loyden, Morgan, O’Hara, Sauerbrunn, Klingenberg, LeRoux, Engen and Schnur. And Lindsey, Averbuch, Rapinoe, Cheney, and ARod all received their first REAL playing time under Pia. Of those players, as many as five or six could be starting in WWC (ARod, Buehler, Sauerbrunn, Rapinoe and Krieger), four (Cheney, Morgan, Heath and Lindsey) could be key subs and O'Hara, Loyden and maybe Engen will be on the roster. That's more than half the team.
I hardly think you can say Cheney and ARod were Ryan's players when all they got was a sniff. Pia gave them and Buehler tons of caps and Heath would have gotten tons had she not been hurt. You listed several good young players but maybe they just were not good enough to earn lots of caps but they certainly got their feet wet for 2012 and beyond when some of the vets like Boxx, Mitts, Rampone and Lindsey are phased out. She has given plenty of players their first real chance to play for WNT.
Who from that list of players who cited should be on the WWC team? I am sure we can find one or two. But to me when you have already brought in a bunch of new players (only eight holdovers from the 2007 WWC team), you sort of need to find out what you have in those players to prepare your team for the WWC in the year or two leading up to it. Again, you and I might quibble with her conclusions on personnel, but I just think it's not fair to say "who has she given a chance to" and Pia doesn't give young players a chance.
Also, we do have a U23 team for some of those players to get international competition and WPS for them to further improve their skills against elite competition. And I also think it's really unfair to compare the US to other countries in this instance because we have such a big pool of talent. I hear what you are saying about trying new players in friendlies and tourneys but sometimes it's not always practical, especially in the year leading up to WWC and the Olympics. I think you always see the most experimentation in WNT in the year after the Olympics because that's really the beginning of the next quad. And Pia certainly experimented some in late 2008 and 2009.
As that article in the Post rightly points out, Morgan would be starting for almost any other team in the world but she is an energy player of the bench for our team. You just don't see as many US players get tons of caps before college graduation save for teens stars like Hamm, HOR etc.. It's not a Pia thing; it's a US soccer and culture thing. There really are only usually a handful of players every year in NCAA that could be considered for the senior WNT. Morgan, ARod, Heath and Cheney have all been capped while in college. So I sort of think the system has produced young talent at its own pace that is different than it is in other countries.
I have been banging this drum on and off for years.
Who knows how the Cup will unfold? I hope-- well for the USA! The only thing I'm sure of is you can't say anything about the Germans with certainty; not since they won the last World Cup. Although I am sure there is not a player on the German roster who would not LOVE to have an Olympic Gold, it does not rise to anywhere Near the level of the World Cup, and for everything else, well, those are just training matches.
To paraphrase the movie Patton: America loves a winner! American women love to win at soccer. That drive to excell is part of our national character, and is a primary reason we have won some contests we had no plausible right to claim. But when that relentless drive to stay on top dominates our coaching and our soccer administration, it drives out risk taking and experimentation. It stiffles innovation, and deprives untested players of international minutes.
There are some economics I don't understand about the player pool and the way WNT players are supported, and I would not want our core players to suffer economically in order to entertain some players on the bubble, but really, the Algarve Cup? I'm one of 2000 people in the US who know what it is and when it is held. Why do we feel we have to win it every year?
This World Cup will be the clash of three world views: The Germans have been bird-dogging about, hither and dither, and now hope to peak after four years for another WC; the USA has sought to build a tight squad that knows one another and just does not know how to lose; the Brazilians bring a bunch of women who remarkably defy complete national indifference and hope to prove that a passionate love of the game can overcome a lack of systematic training or national support... It should be quite a show. I am not sure that the US approach puts our best players on the field, but I Do believe that it creates an environment where those players who do take the field know that they Must Win. Hopefully, that will be enough!
Lusankya, you'll see what we're talking about. No, it's not the apocalypse, but it ain't great, either.
Did really enjoy Sauerbrunn's play in the last match. Hope she plays a large role.
There are some real similarities between Germany/Italy and US/Mexico: two strong teams creating great chances in the final third against weaker teams. The difference between the precision of the German team and the disarray of Team USA makes me want to weep. Perhaps we are just getting the garbage out of our system, but that should have happened two years ago, especially given the small size of our core squad, their experience, and familiarity with one another. No excuse really-- we just look bad!
Looks like Mitts got the spot over Engen.
I wonder how Engen took it?
Great points and painfully true. I will disagree about Morgan's development though - She's proven herself in very little time, with very little starts/minutes. She's just managed to make the best of it, but for being one of our countries best stikers, she should have a lot more nat team experience as a 22 year old
They haven't tried several players from the championship u20 team. Go through the roster list. Ohara and Noquiera got cut from that team.
This whole Mitts/Engen thing is pretty complicated. Mitts has great experience and has approached her rehab with a ferocity that must surely be a big asset to team spirit. We can use that savage drive, and Mitts has always been spunky.
That said, even if Mitts can be 100% by end of June, there is more to defense than individual competence-- she will not have had much time to get her chops down with fellow defenders. Also, her best thing was her speed, she was always vulnerable to being wrong-footed or a bit off the play, and she is not much of a shot threat. Engen, on the other hand, is a rising star for sure. I think Whit is a more dynamic player, but she's young and untested--whatever her skill set, she is not going to set the bar for the team by way of passion and desire to play. As a coach, given the team chemistry of this WNT, I could see going either way.
As far as how Engen is "taking it", if she does not get the call to Germany, my guess (and it is just a guess) is that she will be ok with that. A few years back, she was a better than average striker for UNC. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't get you capped. Now, four years later she is an uber-wunderkind for the US WPS/WNT defense. I imagine her head is still spinning... She is a mature person, a young player, and a great talent; she has many years (and WCs) in front of her. If this is not her year, she will still be around (and still young) in 2015. Actually, I would love to see them both go. Mitts is an outside player and Engen plays best centrally. I have no doubt she will be a major force on the WNT central back line-- if not in 2011, then soon.