PBP: USWNT vs Netherlands, Nov 27, pre/pbp/post

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Nov 16, 2020.

  1. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    And this ^ begs the question "How much more time does Pugh get on the USWNT?"

    There are a lot of good players in the pipeline that, IMHO, are a lot better than Pugh. It's time to cut bait and move on.
     
  2. PlaySimple

    PlaySimple Member

    Sep 22, 2016
    Chicagoland
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I reread my post here and it seems a bit harsh. The substance of it, though, still holds.

    How long should a player get on the USNWT when there are players not on the roster that seem more capable? This really isn't a topic for this thread but I thought that my statement should be qualified. It has been argued in the past that certain players remained on the roster that were well past their prime. Some believe that there are players currently on the roster that shouldn't be there. That's how I feel about Pugh and that is why I made the statement that I made. She may not be past her prime, and at her age she shouldn't be, but her game is lacking in technical skill and creativity. Once she can improve on her game, or her bursts of excellence become a regular thing and not a rarity, she can then again try to earn her way back and justify her spot on the team.

    Making the roster of the USWNT should be the pinnacle of achievement for players. The players on the roster should represent the "best of the best." In that regard, the roster should constantly be evolving. Once a player makes the roster, she can't rest on her laurels. Excellence has to be maintained. I am hopeful that under Andonovski we will see the best of the best on the roster and not the stagnant rosters of the past. It appears that we may be seeing that now with some of the fresh faces and younger players that are being called up.
     
    TimB4Last repped this.
  3. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    "How long should a player get on the USNWT when there are players not on the roster that seem more capable"

    What body of work do you use to determine if a player is more capable?

    "In that regard, the roster should constantly be evolving. Once a player makes the roster, she can't rest on her laurels. Excellence has to be maintained."

    Once you decide to allocate players and pay their entire salaries. Once you invest in promoting them individually. How can you turn the roster over anywhere but at the margin?

    I dont think you are seeing anymore new blood under VA than you did under JE. Remember, Markgraf has a say in selection. The structure of the WNT is not conducive to change.
     
  4. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As I have pointed out before, with the actual numbers, there was quite a bit of new blood under Ellis, if you compare the roster for the 2015 World Cup to the 2019 roster. If we were to see as much under Andonovski from the 2019 roster to the 2023 roster, I would consider that appropriate.

    Anyone who expects to see more than 2, or maximum 3, players per year turning over simply has not done the math.

    For those who think there are better (or at least equal) players in the wings who are not getting invited into camps, who are those players? Where have they proved they are better or equal?
     
    jnielsen repped this.
  5. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    It is also well to think back on the women and the men that seemed to be world beaters at college or club and proved to be poor to average on the full national side.

    I just reminded myself of a few that were the other way around. That is average at the club level and almost unstoppable internationally. The examples for this may be few but I wonder if that is because few "average" or below club players ever get a chance internationally. I can easily see how that happens and I suggest no remedy but I am quite sure there are players playing mostly on the bench for club that would be great on the national team if they could just be discovered.

    There are many flaws in all international systems of player selection but pointing out flaws is only really valid if a workable alternative is offered in place of the flawed system.
     
    Klingo3034 and tiaotnszn repped this.
  6. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    For those who think there are better (or at least equal) players in the wings who are not getting invited into camps, who are those players? Where have they proved they are better or equal?

    I wont do this anymore because the object of the exercise is to win and the WNT are doing that. Most people just want their favorite player to be included. Players are a function of the system employed and vice versa. Its rarely like for like as players are unique. Good management is selecting a system the maximizes te player pool you have to work with.

    My question has always been how does a player force their way into consideration in a system based on allocation? Its clearly not based on current form alone.
     
  7. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My question about who the missed players are was serious. I would like to check them out and see if I agree.

    FanOfFutbol, there seem to be some particular players you have in mind. Could you tell us who they are?

    I think Balcer may have been missed at the youth national team level, but has found her way into consideration via the NWSL.
     
  8. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Actually there are not really. Due to my deteriorating health I have been unable to follow youth sports enough recently to really develop much opinion about any individual. Except to say that it would be quite hard to pick a "bad" team out of the general group that is rated anywhere in the top 200 or so.

    Of course I do believe kids get missed and poorly evaluated quite often as it has been true for as long as I have been involved in youth sports and I see no reason why things would have changed recently. As an example many years ago I was coaching the third team of U16 girls for a club and there was a pair of twin sisters that were rejected for the other two top teams with the comment, "No skill and poor decision maker." They simply had a rather horrible pair of tryouts and they ended up playing for me. I really did nothing for them as my time was spent just trying to keep the team together as the results were rather abysmal over all. The only thing that stood out was the pair of twins averaged a goal a game out of the midfield and were approached by both of the upper coaches to change teams and even one team an age group up. They ended up all state in high school. BTW: They stayed with my team because they felt slighted by the other coaches.

    My point is that it is easy to miss very good players when the observation window is limited or when what is being looked for is flawed in some way.
     
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  9. Klingo3034

    Klingo3034 Member+

    Dallas FC
    United States
    Oct 11, 2019
    Think its just being scouted and get attention in college and NWSL especially. Also just being good enough to be called up to camp in youth NT. Just the usual.
     
  10. Klingo3034

    Klingo3034 Member+

    Dallas FC
    United States
    Oct 11, 2019
    Figure these days with soccer apps or a system that reveals all info and highlights videos of the players it helps to narrow down millions of girls to a diamond in a rough.
     
  11. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    #136 FanOfFutbol, Dec 2, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
    I believe that technology is a tool but it also is mostly "tools" that use technology to the exclusion of common sense and personal evaluation. I really believe that one of the biggest problems we have is the over use of technology. It has depersonalized everything including the process of selecting soccer players for elite teams and that is to the determent of everyone involved.

    Edit: Something else just came to mind. If I were trying to select players I would NOT want to see "highlights" as they can, and usually are, manipulated to make the player look as good as possible. Any just good player can be made to look like the next Mia by simply choosing the correct highlights.
     
    blissett, cpthomas and Klingo3034 repped this.
  12. Number007

    Number007 Member+

    Santos FC
    Brazil
    Aug 29, 2018
    What technology are you referring to?
     
  13. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Mostly things like Twitter and other anti social apps.
     
  14. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    You've all seen this, right?
     
  15. jackdoggy

    jackdoggy Member+

    May 16, 2014
    Big D
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, but not nearly enough times. Give me a week or two and I should have it memorized.:D
     
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  16. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This had me smiling the whole way through:



    And, if you never saw the first one:

     
    jackdoggy repped this.
  17. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    this is great content.
    and they invested a steadicam and discovered 60 fps.
     

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