USWNT sues USSF 2019 version

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Do we? A statement while on the campaign trail isn't a solemn oath - especially when the devil is in the details.
     
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  2. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    How dare you.
     
  3. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The fun part will be that maybe we get someone to actually define what "equal" means in this context.

    Nobody has actually done that as far as I can tell.
     
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  4. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And then if "equal" means, exact same compensation, then

    1) Will USSF have to offer the compensation elements that the USWNT players current get that the MNT don't to the MNT players?

    2) What does this mean for the other national teams under USSF's umbrella? Should the Paralympic teams get identical deals? If not, why not?

    3) What about the U-23 and U-20 teams? They are adults, would it be age-ism to restrict compensation?

    To be honest, I don't think the WNTPA really wants to have to define "equal", they just want more money - which is fair, most of us do!
     
  5. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    All very true folks yet I DO know that both he and his family are invested in the team. He took the family to 2 games in France (not on the stump) and Dr. Biden has mentioned their position on the BBC in an interview at the match. I hope to see actual support if not on this bill then on one in the near future.
     
  6. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Given how the "Government" screws up so much and how the vast majority of politicians manage to make everything worse and cheap I do NOT ever want to se or hear any "official" support for anything soccer related. If you get the "Government" involved in anything it gets screwed up.

    There are very good reasons FIFA will take action against any country that allows too much government involvement in the soccer program.

    I do not want Biden or Trump or any other upholstered parasite to have any direct involvement in US soccer and I do not want any bills in congress to even mention soccer unless there is no other way to get something positive done.
     
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  7. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There are not very good reasons.

    The reason is, that when governments get involved, the crooks at FIFA get indicted...
     
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  8. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    This is a stunning category error.
     
  9. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    Sorry I brought it up...
    Let just forget about it.
     
  10. Bob Lamm

    Bob Lamm Member

    Mar 7, 2016
    New York City
    I encourage you NOT to feel sorry about bringing this up. Every public statement by a legislator, by the President of the United States, by anyone of influence, by anyone not a public figure, in support of the USWNT, or women's soccer in general, or women's sports in general, is important. Of course it's very likely that no federal legislation is going to come of this. But statements in support of women's sports in a sexist culture are valuable.
     
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  11. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    Continuing then....

     
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  12. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
  13. zdravstvuyte

    zdravstvuyte Member

    Aston Villa
    United States
    Jul 26, 2018
    Back on tour !!!
    Here’s a refresher for y’all...
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/2062
    SB2062 in the news AGAIN...
    legislation...legislation...legislation.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/senate...hold-federal-funds-for-world-cup-unless-uswnt
     
  14. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Again, it'd be real nice if someone involved with the union define "equal". I really wish they'd adopt the phrase "equitable" as it's probably a better term of art for what they want (and much of what they deserve).

    The problem is that "equal" as a stand alone concept is too ambiguous.

    USSF has offered equal percentages of revenue streams (prize money) that they don't control. The WNTPA wants and equal payout to what the men would have received had they matched the women's results. Both perspectives have logical consistency. What I really don't understand is why the WNTPA doesn't press FIFA to equalize payouts instead of going after the middle-man who might be bankrupted should they prevail - and would also likely not have the funds to fulfill their main mission of promoting and organizing soccer of all types in the country.
     
  15. Hexa

    Hexa Member+

    May 21, 2010
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I have mixed feeling about this bill. In one hand, I think FIFA is shooting their own foot and are behind the times. They should unbundle the TV revenue for the WC and WWC, and give a huge fraction of WWC's revenue as prize money. Really crazy amount, like 30% of revenue. This will make WWC unprofitable but in the age of cancel culture soccer you need large statement and FIFA has enough money to cover WWC.

    On the other hand. I think this bill opens up a can of worms. If this pass I would cancel US WC and give Canada/Mexico a chance to host it by themselves if they cannot or won't. Give to someone else. Cannot have a country politics meddling with WC.
     
  16. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My issue is that the women, in addition to the competition awards you mention, they also want to match the mens’ per game pay and keep the annual salary and benefits that the men don’t get. If they want equal pay, fine, but they need to give up the annual salaries, paid maternity leave, health insurance, child care stipends, the extra friendlies they play, etc, etc.
     
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  17. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, one of the basis of the lawsuit is literally called the Equal Pay Act....
     
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  18. Bob Lamm

    Bob Lamm Member

    Mar 7, 2016
    New York City
    Thank you!
     
  19. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From the record in the WNT lawsuit, this is not the case. The women told the USSF that they would accept a contract the same as the MNT provided that their pay amount related to the World Cup would be the same amount as the men would have received for the result the women achieved. USSF said absolutely not, they would not even consider it. Thus the women never were put in the position of having to show whether they really would give up their guarantees in exchange for equal World Cup pay (although they had indicated they would).
     
  20. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You seem to be confusing two different things. You are talking about the competition rewards that Andy mentioned and there is absolutely no way that USSF can afford to give the women the same reward level for the MWC. The payout for the winner of the MWC in 2018 was $48 million, while the payout for the winner of the WWC in 2019 was $4 million. Paying the women the same percentage the men would get would result in USSF paying them more money than USSF got from the FIFA. So of course USSF is going to reject that. There are, of course, ways around this, but ultimately, the issue is that FIFA pays out more for the MWC than they do for the WWC

    What I'm talking about is the performance based pay that the teams get for the games outside of the World Cup. I'm not sure what the actual numbers are, but it's something like the Men get $3,000 for wins, $1,500 for draws, and $500 for losses, while the Women get something like $1,500 for wins, $500 for draws, and nothing for losses. Again, it's made up numbers for the most part, but you get the point. On a per game basis, the men get paid more based on the result than the women do. The women also want those numbers to match up, but they also want the guaranteed annual salary. According to USSF, when they offered that model in lieu of the guaranteed annual salary, the women said no.
     
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  21. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    As long as this saga has been going on, it's hard to believe that there are still people who don't understand this.

    Of course it is effectively in the job description of a lawmaker to ignore real life at every turn.
     
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  22. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was not confused or confusing anything. I was clarifying that the women were willing to sign up for the same agreement as the men provided that it was the whole agreement. I think it is important to keep remembering that. Once the USSF categorically rejected the same World Cup results bonus amounts as the MNT contract provides for the men, then the negotiations changed and ended up as they did with differences from the MNT contract.

    I was clarifying because people get confused unless they know the entire story and end up thinking that the women really did not ask for the same contract as the men. They did but USSF refused to consider it, at which point the women negotiated something different.

    Which is not to say that I think highly of what is going on in Congress.
     
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  23. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes… like I said in my post by quoting and referencing Andy’s post in which he mentioned the WC reward differences… You see. When someone starts off a post by saying “in addition to the competition awards you mention” while posting someone’s post they are, in fact, appending their comment to the other person’s…

    However, we can also look at the women’s lawsuit and public statements where they include how much more they would have made based on their record without subtracting how much they made from their annual salaries..
     
  24. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USSF President Cindy Cone is having a press conference and starts off with:



    The big takeaway is that Cone says USSF can’t afford to make up the reward difference between the MWC and WWC to give the women the same award that the men would get.
     
  25. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The easy answer is to give the men less World Cup bonus money. They are not going to earn the money anyway. Or to put it differently, the USSF World Cup bonus structure for the men is pretty meaningless, so why not do away with it.
     
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