USWNT sues USSF 2019 version

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by lil_one, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Layman

    Layman Member

    Mar 7, 2002
    I don't see why Women in national soccer are paid less than the men when the NWST has become one of the best national teams in the world and won many championships while the men's team has no identical results to show.
     
  2. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    One major flaw (not the only one) in the "equal pay for equal play" argument put forth, is the USWNT doesn't even want equal pay within their own team. They have and want a stratified system where the better players and the players who have been around longer, get paid more than the newer players and those who aren't as good. If it truly is about playing the same game, on the same size field, with the same amount of practice, and the same amount of travel, surely everyone on their own team is doing the same work and should be paid the same as Carli Lloyd.
     
  3. Bob Lamm

    Bob Lamm Member

    Mar 7, 2016
    New York City
    Well said.
     
  4. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They aren’t being paid peanuts... The regulars are getting paid a six figure salary.
     
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  5. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    This lawsuit has nothing to do with growing the women's game.
     
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  6. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    not sure they are. my understanding is that they have a similar pattern.

    i think we agree that contracts are a crutch.

    i just think that they are a decreasing necessity (they should be dismantled slowly but carefully - based on club soccer’s improvement), while you think that they should be scrapped immediately.

    if so, i agree that we should agree to disagree.
     
  7. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    So should the MLS affiliated NWSL teams have equal pay to the men's teams then? They are technically playing for the same organization. And why should WNT players be making a larger NWSL salary than their teammates?

    If they really wanted to grow the game they'd scrap their contracts and tenure for life status, and allow the team to have open callups. That is the only true equal pay deal the federation can offer them. That will never happen.
     
  8. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #58 MRAD12, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    This argument is nonsense.

    In the men's game there is much more and better competition. Just about every country in the world has a men's soccer team, not so in the women. The US women often schedule third world countries where they win by 7-0. Many third world countries can beat the men's team because the level of soccer in their countries between the men and women is a big difference.

    A US men's 1-0 loss, to let's say Kazakhstan men, cannot be compared to a US women's win of 10-0 over Kazakhstan women. The difference in level of competition world-wide between the men's game and the women's game is as deep and wide as the Grand Canyon.

    Please people, stop comparing the success of the US men vs the success of the US women. The men face 10x tougher competition around the World than the women do.
     
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  9. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Not well said. The USWNT does NOT get paid peanuts. From my understanding, they get paid very well for playing for Uncle Sam. Six figure salaries in the hundreds of thousands per year. All guaranteed under a contract.
     
  10. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #60 MRAD12, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    Again, I have no problem with the men and women getting paid equally when playing for the National Team. In fact I agree with it. But than, in order to make things equal the women will have to give up their guaranteed contract and get paid just like the men.
     
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  11. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Agree. But IMO, it's about "cult of personality" and popularity in the women's game. Who do the kids with their "clueless" soccer mom's and soccer dads scream for the loudest for autographs after the game?
     
  12. Germans4Allies4

    Jan 9, 2010
    Agree with this 100%. This is the big point. Don't guarantee them contracts and, with that, their spot on the team isn't guaranteed. Also, it gets rid of the rules that limit, and almost make impossible, someone outside of the contracted players to get into the NT.

    These spoiled and overrated women have no clue what it's like to truly compete for a spot on a full National Team.
     
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  13. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here

    And, stop having their NWSL salaries subsidized.
     
  14. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    They have a fed that pours more resources into women's soccer than any country in the world. A culture that supports women in sport more than any country in the world. The playing field is farrrrrrr from level. Female soccer players in the U.S. are supported way more than any other country in the world. Look at how many other teams have U.S. college, or former U.S. college players.

    After we beat Russia in a friendly, the Russian coach was asked if women's soccer in Russia was growing. His response: "In Russia, women's soccer is nothing."

    It's sickening to see them brag about their accomplishments compared to the men. It drags the whole sport down.

    Get ready for many more posts after a negative MNT result: "they should have sent out the women!"
     
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  15. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Funny, I said here on Big Soccer, as long ago as 2002 when I saw the bonus structure the men got for making the quarterfinals of that World Cup, compared to how the women were paid for winning in 1999, that there was a possible discrimination case there...
     
  16. Layman

    Layman Member

    Mar 7, 2002
     
  17. Layman

    Layman Member

    Mar 7, 2002
    In sports, one pays for results and not because of the abilities of the opponents. If men overall are good, then it should be expected that your team can be just as good too or better. If you don't have good results, why should you be paid more.
     
  18. HouseofCards

    HouseofCards Member

    Nov 26, 2012
    Wrong, in professional sports, one pays for entertainment.
     
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  19. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm surprised at the vitriolic tone of your posts about the US Women's team and players, as I know you are a women's soccer fan. You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but making false statements to support your opinion is just plain wrong (to put it nicely) and is harmful to women's soccer. The US women have not played a third world country in the last two years, except when required as part of the Concacaf competition (unless you count Chile and Mexico as third world countries). Here are the US women's games over the last two years, with the opposition's FIFA rank as of the last publication date. I'm betting that no other team in the world, women's or men's, has come remotely close to this tough a schedule:

    #2 Germany: 2 games
    #3 France: 3 games
    #4 England: 3 games
    #5 Canada: 3 games (1 required by Concacaf)
    #6 Australia: 2 games
    #8 Japan: 3 games
    #9 Sweden: 1 game
    #10 Brazil: 3 games
    #12 Spain: 1 game
    #13 Norway: 1 game
    #14 Korea: 2 games
    #15 China: 2 games
    #17 Denmark: 1 game
    #19 New Zealand: 2 games
    #20 Scotland: 1 game
    #25 Russia: 2 games
    #27 Mexico: 3 games (1 required by Concacaf)
    #32 Portugal: 1 game
    #38 Chile: 2 games
    #53 Jamaica: 1 game (required by Concacaf)
    #54 Panama: 1 game (required by Concacaf)
    #58 Trinidad & Tobago: 1 game (required by Concacaf)
     
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  20. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    #70 hocbz, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    Exactly. I have seen some pretty dubious arguments against the MNT - one being that they lose more, the other that people are buying the tickets to root or watch the other teams and they aren't actually MNT fans. Uh, who cares? Money is green regardless of the intent of the consumer. People don't watch Copa America to see the MNT win. They just want to watch competitive soccer.

    The USWNT, on the other hand, is mainly an exhibition, "stars" based team. much of the women's team's appeal is the individual personalities. If they moved to an open, merit based system and Alex Morgan, Julie Ertz and Tobin Heath weren't called in regularly anymore (hypothetically speaking, heath at least deserves to be there on merit), would as many people still watch? I'm not sure.
     
  21. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That subsidy is largely why NWSL is around, both because it allows NWSL to afford the players, but also because it allows the league to use them for marketing. Get rid of the subsidies and NWSL collapses, which is the best way to doom the USWNT and set women’s soccer back several decades....
     
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  22. hocbz

    hocbz Member

    Feb 15, 2016
    #72 hocbz, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    I wonder if it's true that the federation offered equal pay, but only if the payment structure changed to a per diem system like the men have.

    There have been other models proposed, like taking that money the WNT uses to subsidize individual contracted players and give it in a lump sum form to teams. This would benefit more players than just the federation players. Getting rid of the salary cap could also allow teams to pay their athletes more. Of course, some teams might fold and the "parity" would perhaps lessen a bit, but there are already teams that have zero WNT players (Houston).

    The current system of contracts and allocations benefits ONLY 22 or so players in a league of many more, and severely limits the opportunities of the other professionals to get chances on the national team AND make more money. These women preach equality, but I don't think they want equality of opportunity at all. Let's be real, if there was a merit based system in place based on league play, Alex Morgan and Carli Lloyd would not be getting call ups anymore.
     
  23. MRAD12

    MRAD12 Member+

    Jun 10, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #73 MRAD12, Mar 10, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    Wow, cpthomas, I actually had to look that word up. I wouldn't call it vitriolic, I would call it passionate, engaged. :)

    My friend as you know, I haven't just started following the women's game just two years ago, it has been about 25 years since I acknowledged that the women's game was a very exciting, entertaining and often pure form of the game that I love and have played all my life, and have been passionately following this form of the game ever since.

    Sooo...I made my comments in retrospect of my 25 years of following the USWNT, not just 2 years ago.

    I was not trying to make false statements, as you say. If it seemed that way, I apologize, it's not intentional as I sometimes speak in generalities and I wish to clarify that I was thinking further back than just 2 years.
    Maybe it wasn't exactly 7-0 and maybe it wasn't scheduled by US Soccer but for example, I went to the 2012 CONCACAF Women's Olympic Qualifying Tournament in Vancouver, Canada. The USWNT defeated the Dominican Republic 14-0, and two days later they beat Guatemala 13-0, and after every goal Pia was jumping up and down, hi-fiving the coaches, the bench, etc. I didn't like that, but that's another topic.
    I doubt very much that the men would have ever beaten the Dominican Republic and Guatemala by a combined score of 27-0. That's my point.

    I know you like to argue about the semantics and choice of my words, this isn't the first time, but I wish you would focus on the gist of my argument, which is that the comparison of the results between the US Men's National Soccer Team and the results of the US Women's National Soccer Team are not fair as IMO, the men face bigger, better competition on a more consistent basis than the women do. The women have a much easier road through CONCACAF qualifying. Would you agree?

    I am a fan of the USWNT AND it's players, but sometimes get rubbed the wrong way with some of the perceived politics involving the National Team.
     
  24. Layman

    Layman Member

    Mar 7, 2002
    Is it true that men's games are more entertaining than women's games. I don't think so. Your statement is all wrong.
     
  25. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    If, and that's a big if, it's equal pay then the contracts should be scrapped immediately. If not, they should be decreased but I'm sure I want it done quicker than you. What I would like to see is higher pay across the board for NWSL players. And don't get me started with the way Sky Blue players are treated. What an embarrassment and USSF should step in. Remember, before the days of 150mil expansion fees, USSF helped MLS quite a bit.
     

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