USMNT vs High-Press

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by adam tash, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If any decent opponent watches tapes of this 2019 Gold Cup....the clear winning strategy vs the USMNT is high-press. If a team can apply tight defensive pressure to center-midfield, the backline and the GK....the USMNT has no answers. Even Curacao had success with this approach....smothering the US and dominating possession once they switched to this tactic.

    If teams like Curacao and even Mexico can suffocate the US with a high-press...what will bigger teams be able to do with one???

    Does the current group favored by GGG have the horses to handle a high-press?

    Should other options be brought into the team with an eye towards dealing with this (potential) approach by opponents?

    Who are the players on the current team who cannot overcome a high press and who are the players who can?

    Teams should be forced to pay for high-pressing the USMNT as it theoretically should leave them more vulnerable defensively..... can this team as currently constructed make opponents pay for high pressing them?
     
  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dunno.
     
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  3. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    They should, but they need to abandon/mix up playing out of the back, use the speed on the wings and it would help to get a true holding midfielder in the side. Pulisic can dribble in open field, but he will tend to be doubled. Wes and Jozy are good enough in the air, that this team can go route 1 when it needs to - and probably should have more v. Mexico, esp in the 2nd half. (Brooks has a really strong deep L to R cross that is also effective, although he needs time to deliver it.) There were too many easy giveaways in transition, even when we got through the pressing line. We tried to play to pretty/sophisticated for our skills against Mex.
     
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  4. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007

    in the final vs Mexico, the defense tried desperately to build out of the back and find the DM to relieve pressure. Bradley was nowhere to be seen, are we surprised? Hes done. Smoked like swiss cheese. They had to resort to long balls and giving back possession.
     
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  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jozy isn't as good as you would think in the air, as Sunderland found out when they played him as a traditional number 9. Only 17% of his club goals since 2006 have come from his noggin.
     
  6. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    It's always so funny and interesting which posters, when addressing Jozy's ~370 career, tend to go first to his 18 months with the shyte-show that was/is S'land... But I digress...

    I was talking about being decent in the air for breaking a high press - it is not about scoring goals with your head, it's about being able to back in and knock down. You need guys who can play back-to-goal and knock-down, flick-on or lay-off (like the play to CP in 1st half of the Mexico game). One of the reasons that the 2002 era team could punch above it's weight, even with not-so-elegant backs like Agoos and Frankie in the squad, was McHead could knock down, hold up and flick on like a champ. So we had a viable outlet when we were pressed and the wings weren't open.

    Jozy isn't McBride good, but he's decent enough to draw a double (as he did often at S'land, btw) - If the opponent is pressing 3 high, has to shade two CDs to the middle, there is space to be found - like Pulisic did. Ironically, whoscored claims Jozy best season in the air, by far, was at S'land - because they played a lot of long ball crap. It's not pretty, but it is an effective way to break a high press. If your middies and wings are running like crazy, watching the ball go over their heads and your attacking 4/5 can get possession, it can make a team rethink the press. But you have to win the long balls.

    And Jozy is not unable to score with his head either - though it's not his forte. But he is pretty decent at backing in and challenging defenders with his back to the goal.
     
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  7. justinpaul10

    justinpaul10 Member+

    Sep 2, 2013
    It’s a good question. Primarily the issue would be the two man midfield with Bradley and Weston. I think Weston is fine but Bradly is slow on the turn and slow to come back. At this point in his career I think he is a bit of a luxury player, he can play when the defendant is bunkering it plays a lower line of confrontation but gets destroyed in a high press.

    Players that can play central midfield and can beat someone or work their way out to break the press:

    McKinnie
    Pomykal
    Pulisic
    Adams
    Holmes
    Lleget
    Parks
    Nagbe
    Some of the kids (Ledezma, Mendez, etc).
     
  8. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Yep. that's basically it.
     
  9. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Barcelona, Spain
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would add lee nguyen to your list....

    I think it also comes down to the backline.....they played so deliberately at times...petrified of turning it over at times...and then when they were under slight pressure they just passed it aimlessly long....bypassing clearly open players, at times. for playing so safely....they turned it over A LOT (steffen included).....a big part of it was that bradley couldn't get open once he was man marked but there also has to be a bit of variety in terms of what all the players do. when it is so choreographed it is so easy to defend. brooks is good at long passing and driving into the defense with the ball but not sure berhalter would even allow that. plus the wings like cannon and arriola...they are active but i noticed a few times that they were totally not being the outlets they should be......jozy knocked down a header to cannon at one point in the game and he was glued to the touchline...he was 30 yads from jozy but the closest player to him ....why stay all the way out there once you see the ball coming to jozy in the middle of the midfield and you are the closest player to him....? the players need to be ready and able to spot the times when they can leave the spot they occupy to take advantage of momentary chances to create an advantage.....its like all the players are just glued to a certain patch of the field and it makes it very easy to defend them.
     
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  10. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Pressuring the US backline in possession has been the book on playing against the US for decades. We've always struggled to find defensive players who are good n the ball. Hell, when your team has midfielders and strikers that watch the ball go bouncing off lead feet, it would be silly to think our defensive line would be top notch ball handlers. We've traditionally countered this with a target striker and long balls. That's why McBride was so important for so long. And, it may be why people are much more inclined to see Sargent as the US striker of the future than Weah. Weah moves around too much to be considered a target player and he's more likely to score through quick runs or combination play. Sagent is a more static, hold to the center type of attacker and that's what the US always needs so we can hit long balls when our poor ball handlers on the backline need to get out of pressure.
     
  11. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    I'd also mention that Steffan is not horrible with his feet, but he's no where near good enough to play smoothly out of the back when we're pressured. First couple games he coughed the ball up, last couple games he was better about not giving it away, preferring to send the ball long far more often.
     
  12. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Even Wes, as a young utility fielder, is not the ball-handler you want in that situation - he's not terrible, but him + MB is not great.

    "On paper" Hyndman also has the skills to turn, dribble and distribute, but has yet to show he can do it at the required level.

    I felt like the 1st half we did a much better job of simply going over the press, to decent effect. Not sure why we got so plodding in the 2nd. If that was a half-time adjustment it was not a good one. We were not getting through the front line well. Sometimes you just have to go over it.
     
  13. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #13 juvechelsea, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    You can tell Steffen to hoof the ball downfield. I have yet to see the benefit of how we routinely put the ball quickly back in play, both in the back and on free kicks other end of the field. You don't even have to change the concept of how the field players play -- that when the defenders get the ball they will try to pass first -- to have the goal kicks and deep free kicks safely cleared out. Two different things.
    With Long and Zimmerman I don't get why we don't whack the ball in the box routinely on free kicks.

    You can even then, once teams scoot back for the long kicks, occasionally go back to playing it to the backs, once they back off. You make them respect the risk, and then use the space. Kind of like I think our best friend on defense would be more attackers on the field/roster. If a team has to chase Wood Pulisic Weah Holmes McKennie Adams maybe we park on the other end, and maybe it matters less who plays 6 and all the defensive chatter. Because they have to respect us more offensively. We water down the offense for hustle and then are like, why don't they respect us. Hmmm.

    You could play more technical mids better suited to trying to dribble and pass through and punish a risk taking opponent. Oddly, for a team talking possession, we start a lot of hustle players and then moan about their passing. I think our real MO is perimeter players who chase on defense -- oddly paired with Bradley inside and Ream in the back. So play actual skill mids. Danger men.

    You could field faster forwards and just launch the ball and punish high defenses. We generally field hustle players up top. Hustle is not the same as pure speed. The problem is we have become That Select League Team you know that is dedicated to a fault to ball on the ground. Like it would be the world ending if we dropped out of ideal soccer and did the cynical thing the tactics demanded. if a team is pushed high up you hoofball or throughball them to death. I have seen Germany do it to us. Most good teams are not above punishing tactical risk taking with direct play. They don't obsess about how some coach told them at age 12 that defenders can pass the ball too.

    You can go the other direction and replace the weak links with a team of defensive players and basically say you won't break the shell. For a team committed to hustling at many spots, we haven't followed it to the nth degree. Teams are punishing our interior mids. Swap the interior mids.
     
  14. olephill2

    olephill2 Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree 100% with @nobody 's post -- high-pressing the USMNT and forcing us into turnovers in bad spots has been the most effective playbook for playing against us for a long time, and it's still true today. The primary reason for that is because the USMNT player pool has pretty much always lacked guys comfortable enough on the ball and in possession (or with the speed of thought) to be able to play through pressure. Make no mistake, if I were coaching a team playing against the US, my #1 tactical approach would be to employ a high press.

    The two ways you typically beat a high press are:
    1. Play through the pressure with quick ball distribution to unbalance the opposition.
    2. Play over the pressure via direct long balls.
    The challenge is that we don't have many players in our pool who are comfortable possessing the ball under pressure, nor do we have many players who have the speed of thought and skill to reliably and quickly distribute when pressured. The only guys in the pool (in my mind) who are able to do these things well are (in no particular order):
    • Darlington Nagbe
    • Emerson Hyndman (not a senior national team level player at this point)
    • Gedion Zelalem (not a senior national team level player at this point)
    • Christian Pulisic
    • Tim Weah
    • Paxton Pomykal
    • Benny Feilhaber (not a viable USMNT player at this point due to age)

    For as good as Tyler Adams and Weston McKennie are, I don't think this is an area of strength for them. For as good as Michael Bradley's distribution can be when he has ample time and space to pick a pass, he has always really struggled when you apply pressure to him on the ball.
     
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  15. dams

    dams Member+

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    I'd add Dest to the list. From my point of view, he is absolutely killer when it comes to the skill set you outlined. He has been starting games for the the Ajax first team in friendlies this summer and is reportedly showing well. Kids like what, 18 or 19 and Ajax seems to value him. Appears like he might be more of a wing back at this point rather than a straight full back but has also reportedly played on the left at times. Probably won't happen, but I know if it was me, I'd really want to get him cap tied this Fall. Considering we are hell bent on playing out of the back now, he is the kind of player you are going to need in my estimation.
     
  16. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We plodded in the second half because Tata.
     
  17. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    At least in part. Too bad he can't understand the fragile psych of the American player, otherwise maybe he could have been tweaking our second half...
     
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  18. Dfwsoccer01

    Dfwsoccer01 Member

    Jun 23, 2014
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Thank you. It’s the same thing every year. Every time I watch this team. The US is never a quick thinking, quick moving team. I swear it’s like we are soccer cognitively slow! I don’t get it, but some how the US is always garbage when it comes to movement off the ball, quick one touch passes, creating space.... as a collective whole, they always are like this, and I can never figure it out.... and we then resort to long ball over the top and constantly give away possession.... its the same story year after year after year........
     
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  19. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002

    Cherundolo and JOB. The best USMNT outside back duo that unfortunately never really was.
     
  20. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    without admitting it -- people don't want to think we are a bunker team or close to it still, who want us to become slick -- under klinsi and GB we are tilted towards players who hustle and defend. i don't think until this U20 class comes up we would have great ball skills, but you could go into the pool and swap out roldan and morris and arriola and move mckennie to 6 or back and you might then get some slicker players on the field than now. green, gall, weah, sargent, lletget, holmes. you would magically look better ball at feet.

    it's a choice. that choice is being made to elevate other aspects of the game. it is dubious whether it actually does so -- the interior mids don't defend well.
     
  21. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can't understand why we did not roster one destroyer We have not one ball hawk in the midfield.

    Playing Bradley feels like trying to be half-pregnant.
     
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  22. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #22 juvechelsea, Jul 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    here's the deal. on paper we did. 4 of the 6 rostered mids struck me as work horses. except pulisic and mckennie. the 4 just aren't that destructive -- as you point out. to me if i was going to dedicate that much roster and lineup space to players who aren't assists men, i would expect them to win balls. but we don't even ask that. and people wonder why i moan about mediocre mush 8s. "two way players." you should have to be good at something.

    this has been a running issue as jones and beckerman dropped out and bradley aged that we still don't get.

    and this had a practical effect in the final because we quickly ran out of offensive options on the bench -- despite having 23 people dressed. he saw roldan and zardes as forwards, and having subbed them in, was left with boyd -- who he had benched -- lewis, mihailovic, trapp, etc. looking at that, he went left back.

    i agree. i want ball winners in the defensive mid spots, not just hustlers, and i want more offense on the roster.

    i feel like we are in between committing to our best attackers -- which would call for a different roster -- or running a defense worthy of all the attention that part of the field gets in the roster -- without doing it right. but i think the fact we are even semi committed to hustling play is why the team looks clunky under pressure. if you picked a team for skill and attacking we wouldn't be this bad, though this might not be the best touch team ever. it will change as the u20s come up.

    i then think we also as a matter of instruction and tactics will try and ground ball pass from the back even when the situation demands otherwise. i see that as the snob effect. if a team shoves its formation way upfield you have to take the deep ball counter they are handing you. you cannot pull the snob routine of "we are trying to play more attractive soccer" when it's not working, or when it's a choice to your tactical disadvantage.

    for that matter, if steffen simply booms a few goal kicks out they have to quit parking on our end. it only becomes interminable if you perpetuate the press by passing to a compacted defender and playing right into it. boom the ball out 5 times and we would even have more room to go back to passing in the back.
     
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  23. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    bradley should be easily resolved. he is not a DM anymore and any decent coach should be able to see that. the supposed trade off is distribution. he is good for one assist this year, no goals. obvious downside, modest upside. nets negative.

    more tangibly, he is one of the mids beaten on the goal.

    mckennie is better at the same spot and 2 G 2 A this tournament.

    adams is better than both.

    shouldn't be complicated at all. shouldn't.
     
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  24. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    You've got to win them.

    The only guy who seems to win a long ball or be able to control it enough to pass to another player effectively is Jozy. Even amongst our youth, maybe Sargent has a little of that and Ayo Akinola. I haven't seen it from Pepi but he has the size.

    Otherwise, do we have attacking players who can hold up even coming through the pipe?

    I think it's one of our larger deficiencies in the pool.
     

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