Post-match: USMNT v Saudi Arabia (Gold Cup)

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by nbarbour, Jun 19, 2025.

  1. kruck

    kruck Member+

    Jan 12, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    The hell is with the usmnt and injuries? Seems unreal
     
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  2. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Club Med
    Aug 3, 2000
    Proxima Centauri
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How ironic would it be for another Berhalter to keep Gio off the field?
     
  3. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    We have easily been the most snake-bit team in the region, even including Canada losing their best player.
     
  4. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    That's a movie plot twist. But I honestly don't believe that it can happen. Berhalter has been the weakest link of the starters for me except for Freeman (who I have some faith in, honestly), set-piece delivery excepted.

    But of course, that's what won us the game today, so it's not like he's been useless.

    In the run of play, he's been rushed and highly tentative and giveaway-prone, and he's just been able to hold up his end defensively. Just.
     
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  5. Demo250

    Demo250 Member

    Mar 26, 2025
    Fair points on all. Only disagreement would be you being more critical on Tillman since I think Arfsten also wasn’t doing enough with how the Saudis were defending Malik and letting them have the space on the left side. Felt like it was one of the big reasons why that first half was so sluggish. And yeah, LDLT did not have a good game tonight.
     
  6. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Central midfield is probably the hardest position to adjust to in international play. He’s been excellent for Vancouver this season, so I expect that he’ll turn it around if he has the opportunity.
     
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  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Berhalter hasn't been very good so far this window(s), but I will say he looked to be growing into the game more in the second half.

    The only person keeping Gio off the field is Gio.
     
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  8. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    I don't disagree with your assessment of his play in Vancouver. He was arguably THE MLSer whose club play most demanded a call-up.

    I'm not saying that he's "sucked." He's just barely held on. He's been one of the two weakest links among the starters.
     
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  9. Demo250

    Demo250 Member

    Mar 26, 2025
    Outside of that one McGlynn ball which he crossed with his weaker right foot which Pat couldn’t get on the end of in the first half.
     
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  10. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    Tactically, he was given an easier attacking assignment in the second half. He was a bit exposed in the early minutes of the second half defensively until the subs came on. There cold be a bit a confidence issue there, though.

    With Freeman, to me it all seems to be a combination of experience and confidence.
     
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  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I am 100% holding Tillman to a higher standard than Max Arfsten. Everyone should. He's bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled and he's playing a premium offensive position. I don't think Arfsten made the right choices tonight, but at least he did something. Tillman seemed content to be easily taken out of the game.

    He and Luna are the offensive cogs of this machine. They need to act like it. One of the things holding Tillman back at times is how he doesn't always assert himself offensively. It wasn't like the Saudis were throwing a double team at him that I could see... they were just clogging the middle.
     
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  12. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    As kinda expected...a 1-0 slog. Take the points and move on.
     
  13. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Siem Reap Crown City FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    on the touch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  14. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    SARGENT!
     
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  15. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
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  16. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Overall this game was.......fine.

    Went as I expected as a tough 1-0 grind. Saudi Arabia was even more bitcheier than i thought. Hate that side.

    Richards, MOTM, obvs. Good to see.

    Not much to learn other than concerns....

    Freeman. The player hopefully has a great future ahead of him but it's not now. And our alternative RBs are Harriel and apparently Robinson. Yikes

    Tillman. Pulled the disappearing act for 75 minutes, again. Has to step up.
     
  17. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Tilman never fooled me from day 1.

     
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  18. deuteronomy

    deuteronomy Member+

    Siem Reap Crown City FC
    United States
    Aug 12, 2008
    on the touch
    Club:
    Siem Reap Angkor FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #68 deuteronomy, Jun 20, 2025
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2025
    This is a great question.

    Certainly , there is more than one way to look at this.

    We entered that match with a huge goal differential in our favor. Because of this a tie probably would’ve sent us through at the top of the group. this plays into the thought process.

    The United States used to have an edge/killer instinct in matches like this. Somewhere along the way, that disappeared. I’m not sure what happened, it might be best for another discussion.

    Early on, one could tell that Saudi Arabia was going to bunker and counter. After 20 minutes, the United States held to 80%/ 20% possession ratio advantage.

    I’m going to suggest that to the decision to maintain possession, at the expense of going for the jugglar, came from the Coach.

    And a case could be made for that.

    Years ago, we had posters here who said that the United States was incapable of maintaining possession in matches like this. They viewed that as an opportunity to run out the clock.

    Soccer is all about decision-making. Each time a player gets the ball, he has several options. So, do we maintain possession? Will an extra touch help me see something different? The coaches said let’s play it safe. That Center Forward has a bad first touch. (not, big Pat, of course,). And runs off the ball, at the expense of maintaining a defensive shape are also a consideration.

    So, all of these weigh into the decision-making process.

    I’m with you, I thought things look safe enough at the back, that we should’ve taken a few more chances in the attacking third, at the expense of maintaining possession.

    And I might also mention that Saudi Arabia had a couple of chances early on counter attacks. One defensive or goalkeeping error, and the entire scenario of the game plan changes.

    Here are the possession and passing statistics.

    32% Possession 68%
    259 Passes 535
    77% Pass accuracy 87%
     
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  19. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    They’ll play in the Death Star in DFW, which is indoors. I don’t know about other locations though.
     
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  20. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    I think that’s like 95% about the opponent. T&T is terrible, SA was hard to break down.
     
  21. NietzscheIsDead

    NietzscheIsDead Member+

    NO WAR
    United States
    May 31, 2019
    NO WAR
    Watch Agyemang post-up and turn guys. He’s like Tecmo Bo. Dudes are trying to hang on and getting bounced all over the place. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Haiti call up Tuff Hedeman for the upcoming game..
     
  22. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Yeah, I don't really agree with/you on Tillman, no big surprise, yet again. I'm on the same page in terms of the first half, I thought he couldn't get in the game, same with Luna, I will say the biggest reasons I think both were struggling was the horrid play of the midfield behind them, and the FB's. Arf, LDLT, Seb, Freeman, all of them were having shockers in the first half, pass backs over and over and over and over, and was that another one, yes, it was another one....Do I think Tillman and Luna also largely stunk in the first half? Yes. But I also think they were put in a terrible position by Arf being utterly useless, LDLT dribbling to nowhere, Freeman really struggling, Seb being blech, it was all of a piece.

    I think it's pretty clear Poch got on them at the half, and some change ups, and some good subs changed things. Tillman was involved in just about everything in the second half. Part of me wants to concede your argument because I see it: he had some beautiful chances he himself created and he mishit those passes at least in two of the bigger opportunities, a bit too much weight. But I also find myself thinking:

    *He was the one who created the chances.

    *He's the one that baited a bunch of fouls and time wasted with genius.

    *He's the one that concacaffed better than any of our guys.

    *He was a force, intense, only beaten by himself, and rarely at that, dangerous, finding runs, not quite delivering, but also blunting attacks, and leading counters.

    How do you evaluate that exactly? What I came away from that with was the intensity of that second half performance, the getting stuck in, from a guy who never seemed to get stuck in, the leadership of the attacking line (he was involved in pretty much everything that almost but didn't quite get off), the concacafing w/the idiot corrupt ref, the physicality. The intensity of play was a wonder.

    You didn't see any of that it seemed like, but I definitely did. I will concede, I do not know how to evaluate a second half like that, where nothing really comes off in the run of play, nothing. On the other hand, a lot of things almost came off, and Tillman, again, was in the middle of all the almost, and the best part of it, which you note at least half of, is that he played an invisible first half, but then he did something we've all wanted to see, he went out there like a crazed dog in the second half and fought all over the --- damned place. Nope, no assist came out of it. No goals either, but that isn't entirely what people have really been so bothered by, it's more been that first half thing, that invisibility issue, and in that second half, he did what everyone's been waiting for, he fought like a monster all game, grinder, kicked, fought, won balls, started counters, drew fouls, won fifty fifties, and just played like the mother------ so many were sure was not remotely in him.

    How do you score that kind of 2nd half? I'm not sure, but I consider it a win because I know the goals and assists will be there when he's around better teammates when he's playing like that. I have no doubt of it.

    Reminds me a bit of Downs. Not the same, but similar, nothing came off, but all the little things: the acceleration into space, the runs off the ball, the pace he just plays with and aggression, damn exciting. Nothing came off there either, but you could imagine what could happen with more reps and more minutes. I get overhyped way too easily always, I live day dreaming about the next huge prospect on the rise, so maybe I'm getting too hyped on him, especially considering he wasn't exactly demolishing Bundesliga 2 (double digit goal contributions, but it wasn't some defenestration of the league either), but I couldn't help imagining him running onto balls from Pulisic, Reyna, Luna, Tillman, and McKennie, not having Agyemang in the way etc.....

    Such a weird game, but also so promising, I felt like I could pack up Freese, Tillman, Downs, Luna, and Richards and happily take them to the September Window and beyond, and w/a lot of other guys, I'm settled: Arf's not ready, Freeman's not ready, Seb's not ready, I don't buy the LDLT hype train AT ALL, Agyemang, nice guy but no, you made good points about Ream but I don't really want to talk about him, I want to see him replaced and turned into an assistant because he won't hold up against legit competition....I also can't deny that having him and Ream out there is a real tangible thing for this tournament (probably not against Canada though, I think they'll run right through Ream). .....
     
  23. JazzyJ

    JazzyJ BigSoccer Supporter

    Jun 25, 2003
    Any couch coach worth his or her salt knows the answer to this question. When you hold the ball but get scored on anyway, why the hell were you playing "prevent defense"! It never works! You should have kept your foot on the gas! When you go for the goal (but don't get it) and get scored on, then why the hell didn't you just hold onto the ball and see the game out!! :mad:

    So yeah it depends on the context. :)
     
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  24. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I feel like he had a slightly bad touch which is why he decided to recirculate. I may be projecting that onto him, but in the moment, that's how it looked to me, he quickly had his head up checking on the run before he got to the ball so he knew that Downs was making the run there but I felt like he took the ball with too much weight and then realized if he crossed it after that it was going to get blocked, but it's what it seemed like, and I do need glass lol, especially at night. I'm gonna check my recording and see if I am just imagining that.
     
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  25. Marko72

    Marko72 Member+

    Aug 30, 2005
    New York
    LDLT was probably the biggest disappointment for me today (not worst performance, but biggest disappointment), especially as I watch the replay of the match. His decison-making was regularly so conservative as to be cowardly. Now, I'm guessing that he was probably instructed not to take big risks through the middle as the counter attack or set piece were always going to be the main Saudi weapon, but the way that he wouldn't even look to make the half-turn most of the time was reminding me of the worst of Sebastian Lletget's midfield performances in an earlier cycle.

    And I thought that he was one of the best players against Turkey. He has this level in him. He's just very inconsistent, and I'm not always sure what's going on with him.
     
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