USMNT Transfer Watch - Movers and Shakers

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Eleven Bravo, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    It was both, they were notoriously awful in finishing, but I would agree, w/that defense, improvements in finishing rate probably don't change the bottom line. It's also worth noting, they were total and complete dog---- in both '21-'22 and '22-'23, and only stayed up thanks to some late game heroics.
     
  2. iad_22201

    iad_22201 Member+

    Jan 2, 2009
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #2103 iad_22201, May 21, 2024
    Last edited: May 21, 2024
    This is simply not true. They were not "notoriously awful in finishing". In fact, they actually overperformed their xG last season (one of 10 clubs to do so in 22-23).
     
  3. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lots of Bryan Reynolds chatter that he may be on the move.

     
  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
  5. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
     
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  6. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Looks like Wes may well be on the move if a suitable buyer can be found.

     
  7. juveeer

    juveeer Member+

    Aug 3, 2006
    Juve's new regime with Giuntoli and it looks like Thiago Motta will be moving Wes on.

    Weah looks like he might stick it, so far. I think he looks like a player that Motta with the way he plays may find useful.
     
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  8. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Wait, really? When did that happen? What occured that suggests they are no longer a joke. I rarely watch, but what I see is still not appealing to me (including those guys just called into our national team). Most of the stuff I read about the league is pretty embarassing...
     
  9. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Why do people who admit they don't actually watch MLS, think their opinion on it has any value whatsoever?

    I don't watch the Croatian League. So why would I talk about its quality versus MLS? I don't know.
     
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  10. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well, you just said (in another thread) youve never watched 90 minutes of marlon fossey, yet that didnt stop you from ranting about him being "just (a) guy in europe".

    so which is it? you get to assert mls players are superior with no insight whatsoever on the alternatives, but no one gets to talk about mls without an intimate familiarity?
     
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  11. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I had many direct questions about what you wrote, but not interested in you deciding the path of the conversation.

    Why do you have such strong and broad opinions that you share with people who don't hold your views and look the other way when you MLS fans constantly do similar things?

    The MLS fans are the ones constantly comparing leagues. It is the stupidest exercise ever. As you allude to, they don't follow all the leagues around the world. They aren't fully knowledgeable and then take averages of metrics that aren't really important. Then there is the fact that MLS has structured themselves in way making it literally impossible to subjectively compare to other leagues.

    Yet, you engage in discussions about players in the usmnt on regular basis.

    Solid post structure btw. Politely attempt to discredit my views initially and then try to act you are some saint/victim.
     
  12. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Thank you for that very obvious example.

    That response from him was to not deal with the systematic inclusion of MLS players and that while the bottom of any one roster isn't an issue, but to do it on a consistent basis, can really hinder a team. Can anyone tell me that last time the bottom of a roster wasn't a majority of undeserving MLS guys? I can't under this coach.
     
  13. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    All I'm saying is I'm not going to advocate for a player I haven't seen, which seems reasonable. If you don't watch MLS, don't tell me those players aren't deserving. You don't actually know. But anyway......

    John Tolkin getting paid! Contract thru 2027 with an option for 2028.

     
  14. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    You weren't afraid to trash Trusty though.

    The problem isn't the folks that don't watch MLS. It is you guys that don't seem to know how good those players are relative to the international level. I havent seen an MLS player on here where their actual ability isn't significantly lower than the hype from you guys.

    Bringing up compensation just brings us back to the league and argument are a jokes. If getting overpaid by MLS was an indicator of talent, why did berhalters guys from last cycle suck over and over again?

    I do think it is cute that you think you can tell me to not talk about your precious little players because I go out of my way to not watch MLS. First being generally aware of what was going on the league for the first 20 years of its existence would give me a decent idea about some things. Heavily supporting it for over 10 of those years should a little bit as well. It might be odd to you, but not hard for someone like me to pop in for a game or two and have a pretty good feel for what has changed. You do know that the majority of any improvement in the league is due to players who can't play for our national team???

    It doesn't take long to tell if a player isn't ready for a higher level. The increased quality of our pool has made it even easier.

    In conclusion, MLS is a joke, I think your posting on here is a joke, and the Americans in MLS aren't good enough for the USMNT. You can thank Arena and Berhalter for their experiments to prove this.
     
  15. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The first 20 years of MLS takes us through 2015. That was almost a decade ago.

    One of two things is unquestionably true. Either MLS has gotten better, or, every other league in CONCACAF has gotten worse.

    Logic tells us one of those is by far more likely.
     
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  16. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    That is a lot of words for something everybody agrees on.

    Unfortunately, that is unrelated to the only real discussions going on. It doesn't have anything to do with Clint's incorrect assumption that somebody can't know the quality of american players in MLS without watching it or whether the league is still a joke.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You said the league is a joke AND it’s steadily improving? Ok I guess.
     
  18. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    you mean the costa rican primera, the jamaican prem, etc- not national teams, right?

    other than liga mx (which hasnt been hugely effected by mls), i would say both of those statements are true.

    mls improving is true, full stop (im not here for the mls vs slapfight). other concacaf nations/national teams have improved in large part because of mls- arguably as much, if not more than, the usmnt has. even going pretty far back its been a higher level overall, with more diverse competition/player base (i guess im just saying better again) and certainly more "professional" environment (better facilities, bigger stage, im not sure how the pay has always compared but im pretty sure mls players have always gotten paid. on time.)

    ive never given a lot of thought to concacaf leagues, but based on mls rosters being populated to some substantial degree by non-us, concacaf players logic tells me those leagues would then be worse off.

    i dont know exactly what your point was in the context you intended (and again- super dont care), but its an interesting statement, if you feel like saying a little more.
     
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  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree with that statement. I think Liga MX has been hugely affected by MLS. Not in terms of results, yet, but in terms of the owners' thinking.

    They've seen the success MLS has had financially, with small losses and high valuations. They've seen the rise of the USMNT. They're having to compete for players and for attention.

    Obviously Liga MX is still ahead on the field and in terms of popularity but they've suspended pro-rel, they've partnered in Leagues Cup, they've revamped CCC and if they could introduce a single-entity they would do so tomorrow.
     
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  20. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i was only thinking in terms of mls "taking" top talent. other than a handful of dps and then young dual nats/mex players (which is hard to quantify). i dont think mls has pulled a lot of their talent.

    (hyperbole alert)- id imagine dc alone has featured more el salvadoran talent than their domestic league over the last 30 years.
     
  21. jaykoz3

    jaykoz3 Member+

    Dec 25, 2010
    Conshohocken, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For the most part the "A" level Concacaf talent has played outside of MLS the past 20+ years. Some of that talent has played in MLS in their younger years, some has come after their prime years. When you look at Hernandez, Chicharito, Herrera, Blanco, Campos, Marquez, Boniek Garcia, Onyewu, Waston, Sabario, etc. to name a few.

    Then you have the Dempsey's, McBride's and Bradley's of Concacaf who got their start in MLS, then moved abroad for their peak years, and then came back to MLS.

    Then you have Andre Blake who has spent his entire pro career in MLS. Landon Donovan spent the bulk of his professional career in MLS as well.

    This is just the natural evolution of the professional leagues in the United States. Look at USl, those rosters are chalk full of players who just a few years ago were starters/major contributors in MLS. Now these players can't make a MLS roster. Every season more and more young American (and Canadian) players are getting valuable professional minutes. The best of those young players are then transferring abroad to bigger teams.

    Every national team should want and encourage their very best players to play at as high of a level that is possible. Every national team also needs to have a bigger player pool. MLS helps with this second part. It provides players with a platform. The quality of play and talent level of the league improves year over year (and it's at an increasingly faster rate of improvement too).

    The reality is that the UEFA CL, and the storied clubs in Spain, Italy, Germany, France and England are always going to be the goal of the very best players. Concacaf simply does not have that kind of pull, and likely won't (if ever) in our lifetimes. LigaMX and MLS have all of the money in the region as well, so the "B+" level players in the region are more likely to play in one of those leagues due to the amount of money and quality of life they can have,
     
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  22. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    I know that you have your own standards.

    MLS has improved steadily over the years and, while it is obviously a very subjective exercise to rank leagues, it is a fact that many/most rating services, using different methods rank MLS in the top 20 leagues. Considering that there are significantly more than 20 leagues in Europe, let alone the world being considered by so many to be as good or better than all but a few of the top teams in the world takes them out of the joke category in my book. Like I said... I know you have your own separate standards for judging MLS and you have to uphold them. I respect that. I do. Well...sorta.
     
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  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    How do you not see it or do you just not care? The way you guys think is just so weird to me.
     
  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Thanks for clarifying. Let me think about that for a bit
     
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