USMNT Gold Cup Discussion

That makes 6 final appearances out of the last 11, with a chance to tie Germany's record of 7 within a 50-year period. Seems like a pretty good run. Brazil is the only other with 6 within any 50 years.

 

Both Clint and Landon were more durable than Pulisic. LD averaged about 3500 minutes over 15 seasons all comps club and country, Pulisic is averaging about 3000. You can check all 3 guys’ injury histories on TM and Pulisic has had more injury absences in a shorter time span.

 

I think you are over estimating the opportunity costs.

 

The one thing I would add that may have had an effect on Pulisic's (and other current players) durability is the number of minutes per season at a younger age. I don't know actual stats but my impression is that Pulisic and others from this generation have gotten far more minutes at an earlier age...when they are still growing. I believe that is part of the durability issues we have had. As many minutes as both Landon and Clint played for the national team, I don't believe either were playing comparable minutes to Pulisic and a few others at such an early age.

 

If you're getting your injury history from Transfermkt it's not very reliable before about 2010.

 

Go look at the 2021 Gold Cup roster. I don’t think 2.5 players coming through from that group represents a very good return on investment. Repeat that every couple of years plus January camps and the losses pile up. Once again no successful national team program operates like this.

 

It's pretty much CONCACAF's only source of revenue.

You say "money grabbing" others say "revenue generating".

Tomayto-tomahto.

 

Yeah fair enough but should the USSF subordinate its ambitions to the financial needs of Concacaf? It’s a problem

 

A problem with no solution.

 

How is it subordinating it's ambitions? It's 1 out of 41 nations. Most of the other feds are struggling financially, including Canada.

Geographically it's in CONCACAF. There's not a lot else it can do.

 

What are the opportunity costs? If there is no GC, which I have to think we don’t lose money on participating in, the alternative is… nothing. So just don’t play games?!? Same thing with January camp, the one to two friendlies and the TV deal covers the costs. The alternative is to not have it and do nothing in the time frame. The only real meaningful costs are the physical exertion of the players and the time spent by the staff. Those seem easily managed.

The reason why we are not successful on the men’s side is neither of these things. It’s because of the low per capita interest in the game in this country and the resulting consequences.

 

My assertion is that the Concacaf calendar and the MLS calendar militate against the USMNT achieving elite status. That’s either true or it isn’t, irrespective of the benefits other federations derive from having a continental championship every two years.

 

This seems pretty significant to me! Do you think the investment in Nicholas Gioacchini and Matthew Hoppe or whatever GC washout you want to name was worth it? Do you think a whole-ass January camp was necessary to figure out that Diego Luna is for real?

It’s crazy to me that our main way of evaluating emerging talent is to surround it with players who are not national team calibre and play them together in poor quality friendlies or in a continental championship where the top competitors send their B squads.

A more efficient, meritocratic and competitive way to evaluate players for the national team is to incorporate genuine prospects two or three at a time with the core group and play them in meaningful matches. This has been proven at the highest levels by teams that actually win things.

It’s not hard to tell who the best players are. They are out there every week. What’s hard is turning those individuals into a team. Rolling out B squads half the time simply doesn’t advance that goal!

I would prefer to have the GC every four years and for MLS to have an August-May schedule so that each international window could be maximally productive by featuring the best players and incorporating only the very top prospects and expecting them to win. Instead we have a calendar full of throwaway matches often played by guys on the outer horizon of the player pool. No successful national program does this.

I should add that a quadrennial GC played two years after/ before the WC automatic makes that a more meaningful competition and gives the team a non-WC opportunity to learn the skill of tournament management. Moreover, it aligns with the way UEFA and Conmebol do it so our players aren’t constantly in the position of being seen to abandon their club teams in preseason OR disappointing NT fans by not showing up.

 

Again, if we can’t invest anywhere else, and the alternative is to do nothing, then yes, it was worth it. The costs are some more effort from the players at the margins of the pool and less vacation time for the national team staff. Seems pretty clear to me.

 

2.5 honestly isn't a bad return, if you're talking about players who weren't part of the A-team roster prior to the tournament and then became long term starting options off that Gold Cup.

(I'm assuming that's what that number is referring to, because otherwise that 2021 roster had a number of other players who had already been part of the A-team in the most recent Nations League finals roster, or who became short term A-team depth options following their debuts in that tournament.)

That's about as much as I would expect from an A-team Gold Cup really.

 

So if Berhalter had incorporated Matthew Hoppe, Jackson Yueill and Jonathan Lewis in meaningful matches in 2021, where would that have got us?

 

The real effect of the MLS calendar is on when guys are in or out of shape/form and how it affects transfers. Most of our WC roster is in Europe anyways.

Europe and South America are not better than us because of their calendars and only having one continental tournament a cycle. They are better because 70% of their population cares about the sport at the level that 10% of ours does and that has been the case for a century.

 

CONMEBOL makes up for only having one continental tournament by having an unecessarily long World Cup qualifying cycle, involving 12 matchdays and 70 games, to eliminate 3.5 teams.

UEFA has 6 matchdays and two playoff dates.

 

I can't see how you'd get banned. You didn't use any insults.

 

“We learned our lesson from Copa América with the training camp potentially being too lax. I know what they're trying to achieve in this Gold Cup and it's all business; (Pochettino) is setting the standards and expectations from the beginning.”

Well, OK Gregg. The result is we got grouped! Lesson learned?

1926039676470579271 is not a valid tweet id

 

Klinsmann may have been the peak but even before Klinsmann, there were like fifteen thousand posts in the thread about Michael Bradley and nepotism... remember "sidefootsitter"?

 

Wasn’t he like Kenny Cooper’s dad’s friend who hyped him to no end? Loved that guy. Totally ridiculous.

 

Oh I do remember that, yes. 2007 Robo Bob era was near peak too. Then we won the Gold Cup and it got all better. But I digress, still out for a bit. This place is getting wild and not in a good way.

 

You're thinking of england66 (i.e., former USMNT player Mike Renshaw). He was not pleased with Bradley's treatment of Cooper, but no I don't think he's one of the people xbhaskarx is referring to.

sidefootsitter really hated Bob Bradley, but I don't think nepotism was one of his chief complaints. (He was a big Euro-vs-MLS guy, and back then we had a lot fewer European-based players, so I don't think he was one of the folks overly outraged by the younger Bradley's playing time.)