Good food for debate, but for whatever reason your link didn't post, so I'll do it: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2021...rt-goalkeepers-and-defenders-armchair-analyst
People gonna be angry! I like Doyle a lot as an analyst, but I don’t get the Sam Vines love. I’m glad to see another left back appear in any form, and yes, he has that beautiful curling pass on lockdown, but he’s pretty limited in my view. I am sympathetic to the idea that we overvalue offense over defense, but I think I would stick with the dynamism of Robinson until, or if, it ever burns us. I’d pick Steffen, but I am not nearly as certain he is wrong about Turner. I, like Doyle, want to see a few more games out of Richards, before fulling crowning him, but it certainly seems likely he is #1 there by March. We’ll get a good read on defensive consistency by then. Doyle is right to pick out set piece D — I remember that was my biggest question in his Bayern stint as well.
I think the Vines' inclusion is his tidbit to get people to argue. He always at least throws out something to push buttons. The rest is pretty straightforward and hard to argue with on the backline. And I agree it is just a matter of time with Richards, and that clock is speeding up now. As long as he keeps playing, he's going to win that spot.. I think Steffan is the clear #1 and I am a bit of a Turner skeptic. I need to see more and I'm not at all convinced by the arguments centering shot stopping as the be all end all of goalkeeping. Especially when the few highlights I've seen have him rooted to his line too often. I'd probably be more sympathetic but when everyone who favors him leans on the whole, statistics say he stops the most shots so he's the best argument, it just sounds more like people not understanding the position to me. Maybe Turner has more to him and I'm open-minded as I think Steffan is good not great and certainly not irreplaceable, but I've not seen enough of Turner and he needs some experience playing at a higher level. Throwing a goalkeeper into a World Cup or a high risk qualifier with nothing behind him but MLS games doesn't sound wise to me at all and the clock is ticking to get any higher level experience.
I like Vines but I want to see him prove it a higher level before I anoint him the starter. I don’t get the Antonee Robinson hate. He’s historically limited defensively, but I believe he’s cleaned this part of his game up. I wouldn’t be surprised if another EPL team pick him up if Fulham go down.
I think some of that Doyle column is right. Since we haven't had a combined Euro and domestic roster in a long time, it's hard to know Berhalter's depth chart. Is Long ahead of Miazga on Berhalter's RCB depth chart? I don't know, but I know who was starting for the last games that mattered. Long started the last two games in the Nations League against Canada and Cuba. Lest people forget, Miazga wasn't even in the squad. I know Long is 4th on my RCB depth chart. For the moment mine goes Miazga, RIchards, Zimmerman, Long, Miles Robinson. If Richards has a good Bundesliga season, then I may have him leap over Miazga. I need to see it first, though. Zimmerman had a much better season in MLS than Long. Doyle doesn't even have Palmer-Brown in his column as an "also ran." He's played LCB with Vienna, right?
I would put McKenzie between Richards and Miazga but that could change based on seeing more from him (same as Richards - up or down).
I'm just finding out McKenzie is a right footed player who is just generally played on the left. I'm not sure it isn't worth considering him next to Brooks. I was working on the assumption that as a left-center guy he would be behind Brooks. But, if he can play next to him, it might be worth a shot although I'm still not sure Richards isn't better than him today and tomorrow.
By the way, here's part II, midfielders and forwards: https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2021...art-midfielders-and-forwards-armchair-analyst
Miles Robinson is criminally underrated in the depth chart. Should only be behind Long next to Brooks (w/ Richards potentially on a rapid trajectory to #1, but he's not there yet. Miles could catapult himself thru a good game at Mexico in OQ and the summer fixtures like UNL & GC. Be the Stu Holden of central defenders. His demise in league was greatly exaggerated. Improved a lot on the ball. Look at his fbref statistical scouting report. The possession stats are near elite. Defensively he wasn't the greatest defender in the league like the previous season, but still very good. Partially a victim of his own prior success. Elite on aerial #'s. Strong on pressures. Also on efficiency when he decides to challenge. Plus in most other areas. And low key proven in somewhat higher comp and under brighter lights - at Monterrey, Tigres, Club America, @Netherlands u-23, etc.
It is amazing how much you over rate MLS players. Just about every possible MLS player has been looked at and the only one that has made an impact is Morris. There are maybe a couple that might be OK for the bench and the rest shouldn't be anywhere near the 23. I haven't seen much of Robinson, but from what I have seen being behind Miazga, Richards, and Zimmerman doesn't seem unreasonable. The most criminally over rated CB is Long. He should be behind at least those other 4 listed. He is a huge weak link in possession and is very naive defensively. He has never stood out and been very mistake prone. The only thing had going for him are some goals and assists, but most of those came against teams weaker than we will face in qualifying that we beat by a combined 21-1.
I never said they weren't. The most I've said is they're not much above MLS as a league. But there's a disparity for the top teams. Performing well on the road against Monterrey or anywhere vs. Tigres is notable. They've done respectably against the Euro Champion in the CWC lately.
im not making a pro-mls argument, but it is an anti-anti mls one. weve had a handful of post-covid matches (that were half-u23 tryouts), so we are going to have to go a little further back to have any genuine conversation. to say morris is the only mls player to make an impact is just dumb. im not meaning to be insulting, i mean that in as friendly a way as possible, but yueill was a full time starter, same with zardes, long and lletget were very frequent starters, mls keepers got half the minutes in goal, cannon has more minutes than dest, etc. just say you think mls players are garbage, nobody cares. you say it anyways with every evaluation you just dont admit its about mls. and again, im not arguing for or against anyone, but saying morris is the only impact mls player is ludicrous.
Turner was a late-comer to soccer. That’s why he doesn’t know the box intuitively like he should and probably part of the reason why he doesn’t command his area with sure positioning. He has great quick-twitch athleticism and reaction instincts but lacks the assertive decision-making and commitment to contact that he needs to be at Steffen’s level. Steffen is a fantastic keeper, is still only 25 (a year younger than Turner), and gets better every year. I don’t see this becoming a competition unless Turner leaves mls and has success.
Just because Arena, Sarachan*, and Berhalter have played a lot of MLS players doesnt mean they have have had a positive impact on the team. I dont think Zardes, Long, and Yeuill have any business playing on the USMNT. Saying that Long and Zardes should start is much more ludicrous than understanding that "veteran" MLS players aren't good enough. Llettget is a fringe player (but wouldn't be in my 23) and Cannon plays in Portugal (I expect MLS fans to turn on him when he doesn't blow up like they expect). There is hope for the new generation, but the guys over 22 just aren't good enough. The amount of caps wasted on guys who were never going to be good enough has been ridiculous. Posters like the ones i responded to were constantly complaining about MLS players not getting a fair chance 5+ years ago. MLS players have been favored since 2017 and I dont see any quality step forward. I would have thought people would have woken up after after Arena blew qualifying because "we have players in MLS that play that position". *I thought Sarachan did a good job of calling in players from all over the place after a coach has an alleged bias against MLS and the next one stated he had a bias for MLS players.
What are your expectations for Cannon? I hope he can be another Cherundolo in that he has a long career in a top league and is a rock solid, if unspectacular RB for the USMNT.
The people who think this is a debate dont understand the position and how good Steffen really is. It has been over 30 years that one of top goalkeeping camps in America taught kids the job of the goalkeeper was "to eliminate goal scoring opportunities " which goes much beyond shot stopping. There are many other aspects such as dealing with crosses, distribution, organizing the defense, etc. Id put decision making very high on the list qualities needed. I dont know if Turner has personal traits for this but it is pretty clear he doesn't have the experience required.
I dont really have an expectation for him. Your hope seems possible. I dont see anything higher and could easily see him fall short of that. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if he fell out of the usmnt picture in a couple of years.