USMNT and amateur youth Super-Clubs

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Bruce S, Apr 18, 2006.

  1. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    One topic not commented on much here is the emergence and popularity of Youth SuperClubs, and its direct impliactions for the USMNT. Clearly EVERYONE ( almost) would agree that pros should train future pros. But we have 2 problems: not only do MLS clubs not have the money to do this, the USA is so spread out that even if every MLS club had an integrated youth system and unlimited resources, MOST people in this country live too far from an MLS club for it to matter.
    However, the premier super clubs have emerged and grown like wild fire. Here is Massacusetts we have many and some are damn good.The Greater Boston Bolts won one of the USA clubs championships and who are the coaching directors: John Kerr and Bruce Murray, both ex-pro players and ex-members of the USMNT. This week, for the first time ever, a USA youth team ( Dallas Texans) won the U-19 Super Group section of the Dallas Cup-against Man U, a Mexican team, etc. This is a VERY important development for the USA men, because it has a HUGE footprint. MOST excellent kids can get to a youth Super club.Most kids , even excellent kids, won't make Youth Nat teams.This is how our best kids will be trained for the foreseeable future. And it is working pretty well too.
     
  2. Hed7181

    Hed7181 Member

    Jul 1, 2003
    VA Beach, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    grats the Texans! A truely magnificent accomplishment.

    This has been bothering me for a while as well. In another thread, it was being discussed (I think involving Cooper) about great young players 'slipping through the cracks' of US development programs. I wonder just how many great players there are out there, either in high school or college that may never get 'discovered.'

    I think US soccer has risen so fast on the world stage. 10 years ago, we were the minnows, or less, maybe even non-existent. Now we have been top 10 for the past 4 years and have players playing in some of the great leagues in Europe, as well as a ever-improving domestic league. But in all this, our youth development doesn't seem to be keeping up. I think this is a major concer.

    We have only 1 major training facility for young elite athletes (Bradenton) and only a few select 'elite' super clubs as mentioned. I know there's the ODP system and all, but that's by no means perfect, or even all that effective, in my opinion.

    I'm not really sure what the answer is, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like something needs to be done, or we'll continue to miss out on some great soccer talent. Before we ever truly become a world soccer power, we're going to need to sort this out.
     
  3. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    Hed, I think the answer is the Super Youth Clubs. The USA is so damn big that these clubs are given the opportunty and responsibility to train most top youth players. Some of them( Delco, Texans, Bolts, Chicago magic) are very very good.
     
  4. Hed7181

    Hed7181 Member

    Jul 1, 2003
    VA Beach, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    but just like the MLS youth club problem, there aren't a whole lot of these teams around. Here in Tulsa, OK I don't know of any within striking distance. Dallas is close, and I guess if someone was that good, they would be willing to travel 4 hours or move there to play, but I think the problem is still the same.
     
  5. Shibb

    Shibb Member

    Feb 22, 2005
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another concern is the objective of a superclub versus the objective of a professional reserve side. ManU reserves whole goal is pretty much to find and prepare talented future ManU players. I'm not sure what the superclub's objective is, but it may well be to win youth tournaments (sometimes there is a difference in real vs stated objectives). So while the Texans are certainly to be lauded for their accomplishment, they may or may not be doing what is necessary to prepare their charges for the next level of competition.
     
  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    All true, worthy of further discussions, and indeed we've had those discussions on both the Youth National and Youth Soccer boards.

    However, the superclubs do represent a step forward for U.S. competitive soccer development because at least they're serious, if sometimes flawed. Plus, there is a benefit to the very strong players to be surrounded by other strong players. They learn from the practices and daily interaction. Sometimes, the best coaches are other players ...
     
  7. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Somebody else probably has better info than me, but I believe that in recent years the Texans have had players like Dempsey, Cooper, Moor, Nunez, and Nguyen. While I'm not sure how much credit they deserve for developing those players, they're nonetheless doing quite well in getting players to advance.
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It might be cool if MLS funneled some Nike money to the clubs. If a player is a 1st round pick, even if he went to college in between, the club gets $50K. $30K for any other draft pick who makes a roster. $100K for ROTY, $30K bonus for all-rookie team.

    OK, maybe the amounts are too high, but you get the point. Not only would it support the superclubs, perhaps as importantly, it would reward those clubs making a time investment in kids who hit puberty late or are more skilled than athletic or are otherwise late bloomers, plus, it would reward clubs for teaching the things MLS wants, as opposed to the thing it takes to win games at the U-16 club level.
     
  9. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Trouble is, the best way for a club to juice its future professional ranks is to recruit better, not to invest in late developers. Most future pros fit the profile of Clint Dempsey (joined Texans at U12, U13) or Jonathan Spector (Sockers at U13) -- young hotshots who everybody knows will be pretty good. So the superclubs will largely be rewarded under your proposed system for the work that they didn't do, namely providing excellent genes and a good soccer background during the childhood years.
     
  10. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    That gives me an idea ... how about forming a little colony in Florida where world-class male and female soccer players move to start families? We could call it "Breedenton." :)
     
  11. Ronaldo's Idol

    Jun 13, 2004
    The one issue with "Youth Superclubs" is that it they still aren't that accessible, and it is unavoidable.

    I read that Dempsey's parents had to drive him 2+ hours each way to practice with his youth club team (the Texans I think). How many kids have parents willing and able to do that? Do you know how many kids are cut off right there? Probably fewer than 10% of "excellent" soccer players like Dempsey had the means to travel to practice like that. Probably less than 5%.

    It is just a fact that the US is a huge huge country, geographically. It is spread out. If we are going to be having "excellent" players from out of the way areas like Nagadoches (sp?) not slipping through the cracks, something has to change.

    I played for a state championship youth club team and we almost won regionals (Region 1), and our team had multiple players on it who had to drive 1.5 hrs to just get to practice 3x a week. We had pretty much all the best players from the area, but we were at the very limits of how far away we could recruit new players. That means players in the distant parts of the state couldn't really play for us, so they were on lesser teams and had no choice. If Clint Dempsey's parents weren't willing to drive him that far every week, he wouldn't be the player he is today. It's a very difficult problem, and one that is probably unique to the US.
     
  12. CG

    CG Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    doubt it would happen but it would perhaps refocus the emphasis of youth clubs to develoment over winning. I know this is an argument that has been hashed and rehashed but most Euro club youth teams are focused only on how many players can they get to the first team.
     
  13. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Very good post. I'm glad that you presented this in terms of choice, not economics. Most of the time when good players don't receive the best U.S. youth soccer opportunities, it is not because the players' families lack the money. Most families can in fact afford to pay, and for those who cannot, scholarships are widely available. Rather, it's because it's too much hassle. Especially for families who have many children.

    Outside the U.S., the professional youth programs take the hassle out of the program by arranging transportation (and of course footing all the bills.) No sweat, therefore no conflicts.
     
  14. CG

    CG Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    so when my kid turns about 7, I'll move to England. problem solved! :)
     
  15. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Not a bad idea, but the wives often get difficult when it comes to rearranging the family's life for the 7 year old's soccer future. Funny people, wives. Mine thinks that the 500 hours per year that she spends hauling the kid around and waiting for his practice to end actually entitles her to a vote on these issues. Can you imagine?
     
  16. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And I can't imagine Dempsey was much of an omnipresent force for them at any point anyway. We're talking about a total of at least 6 hours commute (there and back) any day he wanted to go into Dallas. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a player they used primarily for state cups and travel tournaments and otherwise wasn't around all that much.
     
  17. ajax81435

    ajax81435 New Member

    Apr 11, 2006
    Telluride
    As a former participant in the USYSA and ODP program, I'd have to say that this program is fundamentally flawed. They exist to get college scholarships...and I think we all agree that college soccer is holding back the development of our youth. From experience I can say that commuting 1.5 hours to practice 3x a week with my club and 3 hours round trip 2x a week for ODP and games on the weekend while also managing a high highschool GPA was not only a burden on my parents but on my own well-being. It eventually led to me burning out.

    I think all of the MLS teams need to develop residency programs for the youth sides. This eleviates the travel issue discussed above. MLS need to also change the rules regarding allocation so that they have exclusive rights to players developed within their own system. If we are to grow home grown professional talent this needs to happen. Geographically I think the USYSA "super clubs" and clubs just below that level need to serve as feeders for the MLS youth sides. Of course all of this would need to be sponsored by US Soccer, MLS, and a major corporate sponsor i.e. Adidas. Talent should never fall by the way-side for financial reasons.
     
  18. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Yep, the Texans are a recruitin' club. Magic does the same thing. Ohio, Iowa, Kansas, etc. I think these kids sometimes show up for summmer/weekend training, but basically they're on the roster to win tournaments & State Cups. And, of course, to be recognized by scouts.
     
  19. CG

    CG Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    my wife has in all seriousness said she will go wherever I want. Whether or not that is the reality is up for discussion.
     
  20. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    how much would this help? There are 12 MLS clubs.The USA is 3,000 miles across
     
  21. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    Tulsa does have premier clubs:http://www.tulsasoccerclub.com/
     
  22. Hed7181

    Hed7181 Member

    Jul 1, 2003
    VA Beach, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    true, Tulsa has several premier soccer clubs (TSC, Thunder, Hurricane, etc.), but none of the caliber we are talking about. I am very good friends with the director of player development w/ TSC, and an ODP coach (he is, not me). It's a great club, but maybe my familiararity (sp?) with the club is blinding me. I just don't see it on par with the programs being discussed.
     
  23. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Trade?

    It won't be too hard to find a better youth soccer location than Alabama, I should think.
     
  24. CG

    CG Member

    Jul 25, 2001
    you are probably right but we are getting better. One WNT player, a few WYNT players and one boy called in to the U20s(Dworsky...of course Texas has had him for the last few years club wise).
     
  25. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    well, my daughter played for Bolts.They are not all such good teams. But I bet the Tulsa team can still give a good competitive environment.
     

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